Folkways Highlights Of 2023, Inside Appalachia

Since 2019, Inside Appalachia has brought you stories from our Folkways Reporting Project. Folkways was created to boost awareness of Appalachian folk traditions and how they’re passed between people. In 2023, we added 25 stories to our growing archive that explore diverse arts, culture, food and people of Appalachia. This week, look back at some of the past year’s Folkways highlights.

Since 2019, Inside Appalachia has brought you stories from our Folkways Reporting Project

Folkways was created to boost awareness of Appalachian folk traditions and how they’re passed between people. In 2023, we added 25 stories to our growing archive that explore diverse arts, culture, food and people of Appalachia. 

This week, look back at some of the past year’s Folkways highlights. 

In This Episode:


Flat Five Studios Fame And Future

Flat Five merchandise hangs in the recording studio. Flat Five Studio in Virginia made a big splash in the 1990s. Now, it’s looking to the future and a new generation.

Credit: Mason Adams/West Virginia Public Broadcasting

Flat Five Studio was a small recording studio in Salem, Virginia. For years, the studio thrived recording local bands and a lot of bluegrass acts. Then, the Dave Matthews Band in eastern Virginia began looking for a quiet place to record its first album.

Host Mason Adams brought us this story. 

Mushroom Hunting In VA And WV

A single, ancient chanterelle on the forest floor proved to be the only mushroom found the day of the hunt.

Credit: Wendy Welch/West Virginia Public Broadcasting

Wild food foraging has been a staple of Appalachian folk culture for generations. In recent years, mushroom hunting has taken off with fungi enthusiasts heading to the woods to seek out their favorites.

Folkways Reporter Wendy Welch spent time with some of them in Virginia and West Virginia and brings us this story. 

Taxidermy In Yadkin County

Taxidermist Amy Ritchie is sharing the love of her craft with other enthusiasts.

Credit: Margaret McLeod Leef/West Virginia Public Broadcasting

A lot of people are fascinated by the results of taxidermy — whether it’s a stuffed skunk on display at a park’s visitor’s center, or a big buck on a friend’s wall. The preservation and mounting of dead animals have been around since at least the middle ages.

Folkways Reporter Margaret McLeod Leef has the story of one expert practitioner in Yadkin County, North Carolina.

A Family Connection To Face Jugs

You’ve probably seen pottery with a face on it somewhere. There are lots of examples of this type of art out there — from cheap souvenir shop knick-knacks to museum-quality pieces that can sell for millions of dollars.

Some are connected to African Face Jugs, an art that enslaved people brought with them to America.

Folkways Reporter Zack Harold traced the story of face jugs, beginning in the basement pottery studio of West Virginia artist Ed Klimek.    

African Face Jugs came to America through Slavery. Artist Jim McDowell uses the art form to speak about the African American experience.

Courtesy

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Our theme music is by Matt Jackfert. Other music this week was provided by The Dirty River Boys, Noam Pikelny, Carolina Chocolate Drops, Carpenter Ants and Allan Cathead Johnston.

Bill Lynch is our producer. Zander Aloi is our associate producer. Our executive producer is Eric Douglas. Kelley Libby is our editor. Our audio mixer is Patrick Stephens.

You can send us an email: InsideAppalachia@wvpublic.org.

You can find us on Instagram, Threads and Twitter @InAppalachia. Or here on Facebook.

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Inside Appalachia is a production of West Virginia Public Broadcasting.

Public Assistance Needed To Stop Human Trafficking in W.Va.

Human trafficking is modern day slavery where traffickers use force, fraud, or coercion to control victims to engage in sex acts or labor services against their will. Victims can be any age, gender, nationality, or race, and come from any socioeconomic class.

Human trafficking is modern day slavery where traffickers use force, fraud, or coercion to control victims to engage in sex acts or labor services against their will. Victims can be any age, gender, nationality, or race, and come from any socioeconomic class.

In a press release from Gov. Jim Justice, since 2007, the state’s human trafficking hotline has resulted in 550 victims identified in 246 West Virginia cases. 

“It’s time for all West Virginians,” Justice said. “All our agencies, and all our communities to watch out, report and support law enforcement so we can stop this disgusting behavior in our great state.”  

West Virginia’s new ‘You Can” initiative debuted on Wednesday. The program empowers citizens, giving them tools to report suspicious behavior. 

The “You Can” initiative and the West Virginia Fusion Center website offer local and national human trafficking resources and a way for victims and members of the community to learn about and report information.

West Virginians can submit a human trafficking tip online at go.wv.gov/TipsHT, by emailing wvfusion@wv.gov, calling 1-888-373-7888, or texting “Be Free” or 233733. Dial 911 for immediate threats or emergencies. 

West Virginia has partnered with My Mobile Witness to implement a “see something, send something” reporting system that can be completed on a smartphone or other mobile device. A printable brochure can be downloaded here.

West Virginia Fusion Center Director Jack Luikart said police investigators need help – and the public needs to raise its awareness of the crime.  

“Human trafficking is one of the most underreported, under investigated and under prosecuted crimes all over the United States,” Luikart said.  “There is a lack of community awareness of these activities and reporting mechanisms, which is why the “You Can” initiative is so vital.” 

All West Virginians are encouraged to participate in this initiative by downloading the free See it, Send it application from the App Store or Google Play. The user may submit tips for “Suspicious Activity/Human Trafficking” or “School Threat or Safety Issues,” and they may also request help for “Suicide or Addiction.”

Organizations interested in displaying “You Can” materials or requesting a free training should contact wvfusion@wv.gov​.

Us & Them Encore: Leaving The White Bubble

Travel is one way to learn — Us & Them host Trey Kay followed a tour group traveling through southern U.S. states to learn some very Black and white lessons.

Us & Them host Trey Kay joined a small group to travel through America’s southern states learning about the country’s racial past and the impact of the civil rights movement today. This immersive journey took them across several states to places that have come to define periods in America’s racial history — from Charleston, South Carolina’s slave trade market to Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta, Georgia. 

The group visited sites that put this country’s racist history on display, and Kay was along to hear them reflect on our nation and themselves. 

This episode of Us & Them is presented with support from the West Virginia Humanities Council and CRC Foundation.

Subscribe to Us & Them on Apple Podcasts, NPR One, RadioPublic, Spotify, Stitcher and beyond.


James Person, one of the original Freedom Riders, in Atlanta, GA, with Us & Them host Trey Kay.

Credit: Trey Kay/West Virginia Public Broadcasting
Prof. Todd Allen speaking to a tour group at King Center in Atlanta, GA.

Credit: Trey Kay/West Virginia Public Broadcasting
Us & Them host Trey Kay at Ebeneezer Baptist Church in Atlanta, GA.

Credit: Trey Kay/West Virginia Public Broadcasting
Final resting place for Martin Luther King, Jr. and Coretta Scott King in Atlanta, GA.

Credit: Trey Kay/West Virginia Public Broadcasting
Betsy Disharoon in her art studio in the suburbs of Boston, MA.

Credit: Trey Kay/West Virginia Public Broadcasting
McLeod Plantation is a former slave plantation located on James Island, near Charleston, SC.

Credit: Trey Kay/West Virginia Public Broadcasting
John Gardiner stands in front of small cabins, which once house enslaved people, and speaks about the history of the McLeod Plantation and the slave trade in Charleston, SC.

Credit: Trey Kay/West Virginia Public Broadcasting
Aziz Abu Sarah, founder of Mejdi Tours, rides on a bus heading to Charleston, SC and tells travelers about his experience as a Palestinian growing up in Jerusalem.

Credit: Trey Kay/West Virginia Public Broadcasting
Mejdi Tours’ Civil Rights Journey stops at the site of the future International African American Museum in Charleston, SC.

Credit: Trey Kay/West Virginia Public Broadcasting

Juneteenth Celebration Features Diverse Mountain State Talent

The seventh annual event, Juneteenth 2023, happens this Saturday, June 17th, from 5 to 9 p.m. on the front steps of the State Capitol.

The seventh annual event, Juneteenth 2023, happens this Saturday, June 17 from 5 to 9 p.m. on the front steps of the State Capitol. The history-fulfilling fest is complete with games, prizes, crafts, vendors, food and more. This event is free of charge and open to the public, and everyone is encouraged to bring a blanket or lawn chair.

Jill Upson, the Executive Director of the Herbert Henderson Office of Minority Affairs (HHOMA), said Juneteenth is a day of positive vibes and unity.

“This is an important day in our nation’s history, and we are proud to come together to celebrate the end of slavery and the beginning of true freedom for all Americans,” Upson said. “We look forward to welcoming families and community members to this wonderful event.”

Upson said the entertainment line up features diverse West Virginia minority talent that would otherwise go unrecognized.

“We have a wonderful comedian who’s absolutely hilarious, his name is Kevin Jackson,” Upson said. “We’ve got some spoken word artists, and a child drummer. We also have a couple of rappers included in that lineup. I think it’s a good representation of the different styles and genres of art that’s out there.”

The celebration headliner is Grammy nominated R&B group Dru Hill. Upson said this is a reunited, classic soul group.

“They’ve done a lot of changes, specific for their 25th Anniversary,” she said. “The entire group is back together, including Cisco, who went off and had a very successful solo career. He will be alongside founding members SisQo, Nokio, Jazz, and the latest additions Smoke and Black from the R&B group ‘Playa,’ former members Scola and Tao rejoin the dynamic lineup.”

HHOMA is hosting the Juneteenth Celebration in partnership with FestivALL Charleston. For more information and the entire Juneteenth 2023 entertainment lineup, click here

Making Faces: Behind A Face Jug’s Grin Lies A Long, Dark History

Folkways Reporter Zack Harold traced the story of Face Jugs. Examples of this type of art turn up everywhere, but some of them are connected to African Face Jugs, an art enslaved people brought with them to America.

This story originally aired in the May 21, 2023 episode of Inside Appalachia.

The tools of Ed Klimek’s trade look like something you’d find on a dentist’s tray. But that’s not what he uses them for.

“These, I can slice eyeballs in half. This one, I can put in the corner of the eye and mouth. Maybe separate the teeth a little bit,” Klimek said.

I realize that makes him sound like some kind of homespun Dr. Frankenstein or Dr. Moreau — but Klimek prefers to work in clay. For over 20 years, his Shinnston, West Virginia pottery studio has been churning out all kinds of creatures. Some look like Santa Claus, or gray man-style aliens. Klimek also has a penchant for making devils.

“Like that guy right there,” Klimek said, gesturing toward a blue jug with horns protruding from its forehead. “He’s smiling, right? But you don’t know why he’s smiling.”

These characters appear on hand-thrown ceramic jugs, about the size of your standard two gallon milk jug. Klimek makes faces on coffee mugs and cookie jars, too. And shot glasses. Though, due to their size, they only have one facial feature apiece — a nose, some lips, or a single, unblinking eye.

“You have a drink with a friend, you say, ‘Here’s lookin’ at ya,’” Klimek said.

Ed Klimek’s shot glasses often feature one facial feature apiece — like this one, with a mouth sticking out its tongue. Credit: Zack Harold/West Virginia Public Broadcasting

Klimek’s face jugs, sold under the name Jughead Pottery, are well known in the West Virginia art scene. He’s been featured in galleries all over and was juried into the state-run Tamarack Market, where collectors snatch up his work.

But Klimek’s journey to becoming a successful full-time artist was a long one. Growing up and then as an undergraduate at the University of Wisconsin, he tried his hands at different art forms like painting, silversmithing and woodcarving. Then came the Vietnam War, which derailed his plans for graduate school. He ended up spending eight years in the Air Force, working much of that time as an illustrator. 

Once his enlistment was up, art remained a hobby as he worked a series of blue collar jobs as a carpenter, window installer, and finally as a pattern maker at a foundry in Fairmont, West Virginia. About 20 years ago, news came that the foundry was shutting down. Klimek was laid off. But instead of looking for another 9-to-5, his wife encouraged him to try the art thing full-time.

“She told me, ‘You don’t know until you try it. So go for it, dummy,’” Klimek said with a laugh. “So I did. It was a little bit of a struggle in the beginning. It takes time to get a business started.”

Ed Klimek in his basement pottery studio. Credit: Zack Harold/West Virginia Public Broadcasting

At the time, Klimek was working with raku, a traditional Japanese style of pottery. But there wasn’t a whole lot of interest in this work. Then he saw a TV program by interior designer Lynette Jennings.

“I forget what the name of the program was, but it was about home decorating,” Klimek said. “And she had a thing on there about face jugs being very popular and collectible. It was a southern thing.”

Inspired by that program, Klimek started to make face jugs of his own. But as he’d learn, the vessels were more than just “a southern thing.” The art form has its roots in Africa, having crossed the Atlantic in the minds and hands of enslaved people.

In fact, we can pretty much trace the tradition to a single slave ship, as historian Wayne O’Bryant said.

“In 1808, you were not supposed to bring in anymore enslaved Africans from Africa,” O’Bryant said. “In 1858, 50 years later, a gentleman named Charles Lamar decided he wanted to reopen the slave trade. And he said, ‘Catch me if you can.’”

Lamar found himself a racing yacht dubbed, “The Wanderer” and set out for Africa.

“He sailed over to the Congo in West Africa in 1858, took about 400 Africans onboard, and brought them back to the U.S. The authorities did hear about it, but he outran them to the coast,” O’Bryant said.

Lamar landed on Jekyll Island, in Georgia. But even after escaping the authorities, he had a big problem. He was in possession of dozens of people who did not speak English, had never had any contact with the West. It was obvious they had been illegally trafficked. So he needed to disperse these enslaved people, fast. 

A cousin took some of them up the Savannah River into South Carolina, eventually ending up in Edgefield County. Then as now, the area was known for its potteries. Many of the people Lamar smuggled ended up making ceramics. And in their off hours, they started making traditional vessels from their homeland.

“Somebody actually recorded these Africans that just landed here making these grotesque face vessels,” O’Bryant said. “Almost all of these face vessels date from after that time, after 1858.”

One prominent feature of these jugs was their stark white eyes and teeth. These were made with kaolin, a white silica clay also used to make fine china. The enslaved potters recognized it, because they had it back home in Africa, too.

“On the African continent, that is the ingredient that gives the vessel power,” O’Bryant said.

No one was selling face jugs at the time. They were meant for personal use in spiritual rituals. 

“These practitioners can reach to the spiritual world to get information,” O’Bryant said. “And they would use these objects as a tool.”

Those Kaolin eyes and teeth were essential for those practices.

“The kaolin would be the battery in the phone. So without a battery, you still have the object but it won’t work without the battery,” O’Bryant said. 

The power was largely cut off following the Civil War. Pottery is an expensive craft and after the war, many Black potters lost access to the materials they needed to make their art. 

White potters, meanwhile, saw the popularity of the face jugs and appropriated the art form. They started making the vessels to sell to tourists who came to see the post-war south. 

“You know, they say ‘The sincerest form of flattery is imitation,’” O’Bryant said.

But once the art form was out of Black potters’ hands, the history of face jugs as sacred objects started to be forgotten. Stories still circulate that the vessels were used to scare kids away from the beer or moonshine kept inside — even though enslaved people weren’t usually allowed to have alcohol.

The traditions were not lost completely, though. If Black potters and their face jug traditions could survive the Middle Passage and slavery, they could survive anything. Today, the tradition lives on through a new generation of potters like Jim McDowell of Weaverville, North Carolina. McDowell grew up hearing stories about face jugs.

“My granddaddy was a tombstone maker down in Spartanburg, South Carolina. And he started telling us about face jugs,” he said. “There was an ancestor in our family, and they said she made face jugs. It was family history. Oral history.”

North Carolina potter Jim McDowell is continuing the Black face jug tradition. Courtesy

Though he displayed artistic talent from an early age, McDowell did not take up pottery until he joined the U.S. Army and was stationed in Germany, where he started hanging out at a pottery studio in Nuremberg. He continued his study of the art form back in the states.

“I was at this university in Pennsylvania, Indiana University of Pennsylvania. There was a white guy making face jugs,” he said. “And I looked at that thing, and I said, ‘No, I think I need to make it myself.’ So I started making them, but I put Black features on them. The scarification, the big noses, exaggerated ears, and used glass for teeth or broken china plates.”

Unlike Klimek’s face jugs, with their realistic, if exaggerated-looking faces, the features of Jim McDowell’s jugs are rougher — more reminiscent of the look of the original Edgefield face jugs. He once told the Smithsonian, “My jugs are ugly, because slavery was ugly.”

“I don’t have any preconceived notions of what I’m going to make. I have an idea, like Rosa Parks or Martin Luther King or John Lewis. I think that thought is there, but when I put the nose on, I feel like I get influences from the ancestors,” McDowell said. “And I do certain things that maybe I don’t even realize. I’m versed in pottery as far as aesthetics and how to put it together. But the ideas — they don’t come from me.”

McDowell feels a particular kinship with David Drake, an enslaved Edgefield potter whose work now sells for millions of dollars and was recently featured in the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York.

“His pots are still here because the writings reflect what he was going through,” McDowell said.

In a time where it was illegal to teach enslaved people how to read and write, Drake was making inscriptions on his pottery. And not just inscriptions, but poetry — clever, funny and heartbreaking poetry, inspired by what was happening in his life.

After Drake’s master sold his son and wife to another slave owner in Texas, he inscribed a pot with the couplet: “I wonder where is all my relations / Friendship to all and every nation.”

“He was p****d,” McDowell said.

McDowell expresses his own frustration and anger in his face jugs. Some of his recent works have been inspired by the murders of Emmit Till and George Floyd. 

“I do it because if I don’t do it, I feel like this story is going to die,” McDowell said. “Somebody has to tell, even though people may not want to listen.”

“Miss Cissy” is Jim McDowell’s response to the murder of George Floyd by police. On the back, an inscription reads: “I’m coming for you son.” Courtesy

For someone with such a deep spiritual connection to this art, we asked McDowell how he felt about the history of white potters co-opting it.

“I’ll be honest with you, I really don’t have a problem with it,” he said.

He says he doesn’t begrudge white potters who make face jugs because everybody’s got to make a living. Plus, there are European traditions of ceramic vessels with faces on them. 

But remember what Wayne O’Bryant told us? A traditional face jug without kaolin is like a phone without a charge: no power, just an object. 

To McDowell, a modern face jug that isn’t shaped by the Black experience is like that. There’s nothing wrong with it. It’s fine to look at. It just doesn’t have the same power.

“They cannot put the spirits and the ideas and the thoughts that I have, because they don’t have that history. Their history is from England or Scotland or over there,” he said. “So I don’t quibble on it, because you can’t copy me.”

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This story is part of the Inside Appalachia Folkways Reporting Project, a partnership with West Virginia Public Broadcasting’s Inside Appalachia and the Folklife Program of the West Virginia Humanities Council.

The Folkways Reporting Project is made possible in part with support from Margaret A. Cargill Philanthropies to the West Virginia Public Broadcasting Foundation. Subscribe to the podcast to hear more stories of Appalachian folklife, arts and culture.

Juneteenth Holiday Celebrates Freedom From Slavery

In 2021, the Juneteenth celebration became a federal holiday. The date recognizes when Blacks in Galveston, Texas were told about the Emancipation Proclamation two and half years after it was signed.

In 2021, the Juneteenth celebration became a federal holiday. The date recognizes when Blacks in Galveston, Texas were told about the Emancipation Proclamation two and half years after it was signed.

News Director Eric Douglas spoke with Rev. Ron English to find out more about the holiday and the history behind it. English is a retired pastor who grew up in Atlanta with Martin Luther King Jr. and his family before moving to Charleston, West Virginia in the early 1970s.

This interview has been lightly edited for clarity. 

Douglas: Explain the significance of Juneteenth. Tell me about Juneteenth.

Eric Douglas
/
West Virginia Public Broadcasting
Rev. Ron English

English: Juneteenth is really the Liberation Day of African Americans. That was when word arrived in Galveston, Texas, two and a half years after Lincoln’s Emancipation Proclamation. And therefore, Juneteenth became the Liberation Day of Blacks in Texas. And it evolved into a kind of celebration that had historic roots.

I think Juneteenth was the first authentic Black holiday. Because, at first, King Day was considered a Black holiday, but it really hadn’t become that. It has been a celebration of the convenient King, rather than the radical King. It really is a date that is focused on King’s speech, the “I Have a Dream” speech, rather than the one that he gave the day before he was killed that called out three evils of America. So, in that sense, Juneteenth is more authentic, because it has a story behind it. And that story cannot be ignored, and therefore the day cannot be ignored, without telling the story. And when you get that kind of narrative behind a day, that gives it significant significance and gives it power.

Douglas: Juneteenth started out as a fairly regional holiday. It was really just a Texas celebration at first and just in the last 30 to 40 years. 

English: That’s why I brought along the book that’s written by Arnette Gordon Reed, Pulitzer Prize winner. The best folk who can tell the story about Texas are from Texas. And I read this little passage, it says, “As years have gone by, I have had occasions to think more about the tragedy and triumph in relation to Texas’ past, present and future as possible, very likely that my time there prepared me for the work I do as a historian of the early American Republic, another moment when triumph and tragedy were inexhaustibly intertwined, distinct, leaving those threads and viewing them critically, it has been in fact a good thing in the context of our national history, broadening our understanding of who we are, and who we are now.”

Listen to an extended version of this interview with Rev. Ron English.

Douglas: What does the holiday mean to you personally, but also what does it becoming a federal holiday mean to you personally? 

English: Another Texan who is a good friend of mine, who pastors a church right across the street [at] First Baptist Church, Paul Dunn, is from Texas. And so when we had a conversation about Juneteenth, he gave me the four primary reasons that Black folk and Texas started celebrating Juneteenth.

First of all, it was the reunification and reconnection of the family, which is celebrated the way that the Fourth of July is celebrated. The second thing was it led to a commitment to deal with mass illiteracy, as a result of slaves not being taught to read, or allowed to read during the time of that slavery. It recognized the establishment of schools to address the problem, which was the genesis of the historically black colleges, such as Wiley College in Texas, and 1860s, 1873, in Marshall, Texas, and other Black colleges, Prairie View in 1867. So you can see that right after the emancipation of Blacks on Juneteenth, came Black colleges to help deal with the illiteracy problem that they had, as a result of not being able to read and not being allowed to read during slavery.

The third thing was a commitment to get involved in the political process. And identifying Blacks who could run for office. But it also had another interesting feature. Those who were liberated sued their slave owners for the money that the slave owners made on their backs. And that is the first taste of reparations.

Douglas: Did they sue for the time between the Emancipation Proclamation to Juneteenth, or did they sue for the money they made on their backs, period?

English: They sued for the money that had been made on their backs, period. That’s why that’s so significant in terms of how it established a kind of economic base for them being able to start for what they have been deprived of, in terms of their own resources. And now they were able to start, in terms of really building resources. That really became the basis of Black capitalism.

Douglas: You were a contemporary of Martin Luther King, Jr. I think you’re a few years younger than he was, but you consider him a mentor — joining the church and joining the civil rights movement. 

English: His family and my family were very close. My mother used to talk to Mama King into the wee hours in the morning, because they just had that kind of connection. And I have pictures of him when he was a kid. One of the pictures that I have is him sticking his head out of a car window. And my mother put on that picture, “just hanging out,” because he was actually hanging out of the window of that car. So our families had gone back for a while. He licensed me into the ministry, and I served as his assistant until his death. And I gave the prayer at his funeral.

So there were opportunities, as I think about them now, being with him, every once in a while alone, and I got so excited that I would forget about what I wanted to say. And now so many questions, I wish I had asked about that. That was the relationship that we had, primarily by way of our family connections.

In 1962, when they started boycotting in Atlanta, a friend of mine did a sit-in, because we weren’t really allowed to get into the movement because of our age and that kind of thing. Later on, there were some other things that we were able to participate in more actively.

Seeing how he grew and how he took on the kind of issues that really, I believe, caused his death. I don’t think he was killed because he was a civil rights leader. I think because he had called out the three evils of American society.

Douglas: What are those? 

English: Those were the issues of racism, militarism and economic injustice. And that’s how he started the Poor People’s Campaign. That was going to be a march on Washington, to really address those three issues. Those were the three evils that he had identified, and I believe that you hardly ever hear that on the celebration of King Day, because they are still with us.

Douglas: When he was shot, he was actually working on a sanitation workers strike, right? 

English: Oh, yeah, in Memphis. He was shot when he had just spoken the night before. That speech almost makes you think he anticipated his death, in terms of how he ended it. “I may not get there with you. But we as a people will get to the promised land. ‘My eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord.’” It was almost like he had some anticipation of his death. And when it happened, when the assassination happened the next day on April 4, it really almost, [was] comforting for me and a lot of people that he anticipated. It’s kind of a marvelous way to make a last speech, a marvelous, majestic moment in terms of use and that anticipation to make that proclamation.

Douglas: I think I remember you telling me that you had actually expressed to Dr. King that you wanted to join the movement, right before he was killed. But realistically, you grew up in this, or you’ve lived this for 60 years, since King started the marches.

English: That’s why it’s been so interesting to watch the panorama of the progress, as well as the retrogression, as we had talked about earlier, in terms of how we now really see the need for the healing, because we now see the depth of the disease, the depth of the deprivation, depth of the separation and it has all kinds of morbid motives, in terms of what has sanction, what many of us thought we would not see.

But at the same time, because of the rise of the Proud Boys, and the visualization of it, because it’s caught on camera — the exposure has really brought it into the eyes, minds and spirits of those of us that view it. But it also brings to light, the depth of the disease, and you can’t deal with it, you can’t find a cure until you deal with the depth of the disease.

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