Our nation’s capital can make and break careers. In a very short period, Cassidy Hutchinson went from being a complete political outsider to traveling on Air Force One with the President of the United States. She tells Us & Them host Trey Kay about life on either side of the political divide.
American politics is now a very ‘us and them’ world. Insiders know the privilege of power, but loyalties can shift and elections can make doors slam shut.
Cassidy Hutchinson, who worked in the Trump administration, knows both sides. She was a dedicated White House staffer who’s best known for her stunning testimony to the January 6 committee.
Us & Them host Trey Kay spoke with Hutchinson about her memoir Enough, which offers an intimate portrayal of life on the inside and a failed effort to stay in power. Hutchinson faced decisions some of her former superiors refused, including those who defied subpoenas to testify before a Congressional committee.
This episode provides a front row seat to the beginnings of a legal saga that may hold an influence over this year’s elections.
This episode of Us & Them is presented with support from the West Virginia Humanities Council and the CRC Foundation.
Subscribe to Us & Them on Apple Podcasts, NPR One, RadioPublic, Spotify, Stitcher and beyond.
Cassidy Hutchinson, former aide to Trump White House chief of staff Mark Meadows, was sworn in before testifying to the House select committee investigating the January 6 attacks on the US Capitol on June 28, 2022.
Credit: Jacquelyn Martin/AP PhotoCassidy Hutchinson photographed outside of the White House at a time when she was a student at Christopher Newport University and participating in the White House Internship Program.
Courtesy of the White HouseCassidy Hutchinson and Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany stand behind as former President Donald Trump speaks to the press aboard Air Force One after a campaign event in Wisconsin.
“So within not even three years, I went from being a complete outsider to traveling on Air Force One with the President, almost everywhere he went. I’m at the last rally. It was in Wisconsin. I just sort of took a moment to myself and I just started walking around weaving in and out of all the supporters. I wanted to take that moment in. I’m looking around at all of these people … and I caught myself thinking, ‘These people are being duped. These people are being lied to,’ and they’re looking at him with so much hope and faith in their eyes. And I caught myself thinking that and I just sort of like snapped myself out of it. I felt like I was completely caught between two worlds.” — Cassidy Hutchinson
Credit: Tom Brenner/Reuters
Watch Cassidy Hutchinson’s testimony to the House select committee investigating the January 6 attacks on the US Capitol.
Learn more about Cassidy Hutchinson’s book Enough.
As we close out 2023, we look ahead to a new year with a landscape partially defined by fear and mistrust. Many Americans say their confidence is shaken. They feel like every institution — from the government, to the banking system, to corporations, to religion, to the news media — are corrupt. What to do when so many of us can’t trust the institutions that hold our society together?
It’s the time of year to look back on where we’ve been and prepare for what’s ahead.
Us & Them host Trey Kay has been reflecting on 2023, and a theme that’s been consistent — trust, or more importantly, our lack of trust in each other and our institutions. In this episode, we’ll explore how that reality could shape the year to come and its social and political landscape.
Kay will also remember several people he met during the year who have passed away unexpectedly and reflect on the work they were so passionate about. We’ll hear from friends and colleagues about how their legacies will continue.
In 2024, there’s a lot at stake and the Us & Them team will keep learning about it all in our conversations across the divides.
This episode of Us & Them is presented with support from the West Virginia Humanities Council, the Daywood Foundation Daywood Foundation and the CRC Foundation.
Subscribe to Us & Them on Apple Podcasts, NPR One, RadioPublic, Spotify, Stitcher and beyond.
“The biggest danger is that the most likely response to mistrust is to exit the arena and sit on the sidelines. If you feel like every institution, from the government, to the banking system, to corporations, to religion, all the way down, if you feel like all those games are rigged, all those decks are stacked, there’s a completely rational thing to do, which is just to withdraw from the public sphere.” — Ethan Zuckerman
Courtesy PhotoChristopher Regan writes for publications such as the Charleston Gazette-Mail and The Atlantic, and he’s a former vice chair of the West Virginia Democratic Party. In 2022, Regan wrote a widely discussed piece for the Gazette-Mail, that suggested Manchin’s reelection in 2024 looked questionable. He said the electoral math just wasn’t there for the two-term senator. It turned out that he was right.
“Sen. Manchin does not like to lose. He is not a ‘fight the good fight and lose and come back another day’ kind of guy. He likes to win every time. He only lost one race in his 40 plus year political career. And he took it so poorly. In 1996, when he lost his primary, that he ended up helping the Republican win the governorship in West Virginia. He had won only narrowly against Patrick Morrisey in 2018, despite the fact that Patrick Morrisey is not nearly the politician that his new opponent is, Jim Justice. Jim Justice is very popular. The environment’s only gotten worse in West Virginia. And it just didn’t look good for him to win at all. And he could have been beaten badly.” — Christopher Regan
Courtesy Photo
Listen to the episode that featured Chris Regan’s prediction that Sen. Joe Manchin would not seek reelection: Manchin In The Middle.
Joanna Tabit was a circuit court judge in Kanawha County, West Virginia, and led a juvenile drug court for about seven years. Judge Tabit passed away at the end of September — leaving behind family and friends who were all touched by her presence in their lives.
“There’s a recognition that incarceration and placement for these kids in detention facilities is not the answer to this problem. And when we can work with adults, frankly, in the community and we can work with youth in the community, the outcomes regarding their treatment and their future and their ultimate success in the community are much greater.” — Joanna Tabit
Courtesy PhotoGregory Howard is chief circuit judge in Cabell County, West Virginia and oversees the Adult Drug Court.
“[Judge Joanna Tabit’s death] was just a real tragedy. She was just a shining star in the judiciary and she was a great friend and a mentor to me. I’ve known her for years, a couple of decades now, actually. And I was just heartbroken by the loss. I listened several times to the interview that [Us & Them] did with her on the Court of Second Chances last year, and it was just amazing to listen to her in action, singing at one point during your, during court she was just an amazing lady, so vibrant, just gone way too young, but I miss her.” — Gregory Howard
Credit: Trey Kay/West Virginia Public Broadcasting
Ashley Omps died in October 2023. She worked as a lobbyist and testified at the West Virginia State Capitol before the Senate Oversight Committee on Regional Jail and Correctional Facility Authority. She told this group of powerful strangers about the worst experience in her life — a time when she was incarcerated in the Eastern Regional Jail after an intense, traumatic event, and said she was denied mental health treatment. Omps said it was uncomfortable to share her personal story, but it made a difference. West Virginia law has changed, because people like Ashley took their stories to the capitol.
“I was in jail for three months on my first offense. I lost my daughter, my home, my career, and my 21 acre farm that I had successfully managed for 12 years. That was three years ago. And since then, I’ve been incarcerated for 15 months. Not for new charges, but for technical violations of failed urine analysis. I’m sharing my story here today because I believe we can work together to come up with long lasting solutions to the jail overcrowding and find alternatives to incarceration that actually help people heal from trauma, recover from substance use disorder, and feel a part of the community again.” — Ashley Omps
Credit: Trey Kay/West Virginia Public Broadcasting
Deborah Ujevich is the interim executive director for the West Virginia Family of Convicted People. Ashley Omps worked with this organization.
“I think that the best thing to do for Ashley, to honor Ashley, was just to continue this work. She was so passionate about it. She was so good at it. She was just naturally good. I know some of the voting records of some of these legislators and how unfriendly they are. There are certain ones that are just lost causes. They don’t want to hear about second chances. They don’t want to hear about rights for incarcerated people. They don’t want to hear about rights for anybody who is justice impacted in any way. She didn’t know these, like political background things, and she would just run up to anybody and just start pouring it out, and it flowed from her so naturally, and she didn’t frame it a certain way because all I know this person is generally hostile to our issues. She didn’t know those things. So she was so open and so natural about it. And she just was a breath of fresh air. I know that’s a cliche to say, but it really is true. She loved what she did and people loved her. I saw some of the most hostile to our causes, legislators literally hug her.” — Deborah Ujevich
Courtesy PhotoDarrin Lester passed away in 2023. He had spent a good amount of time incarcerated and subsequent to his release, he devoted much of his time helping incarcerated people transition from prison to functioning in society. Trey Kay met Lester when working on an episode about medical care behind bars. Darrin spoke about his experience early in the pandemic. In August 2020, he contracted COVID-19 while at Mt. Olive Correctional Center.
“I have a fever that’s hovering between 103 and 105, and you give me Tylenol and cough medicine and they did that. And I put me in that room and there was other than come and check on my vitals. They wasn’t planning on taking me anywhere. There was a new nurse who had, she maybe been there maybe a month or so. And she had duty that night in the infirmary. And she took my vitals and she called a doctor at home and said, ‘man, we got to do something with him.’ And the doctor said, ‘okay, take him to the hospital.’ That’s how I got treatment. When I get to the hospital, I got to Montgomery Hospital, and when I get there, within 15 minutes, the doctor says, ‘man, he’s in stage 4 kidney failure, and he has double pneumonia.’” — Darrin Lester
Courtesy PhotoAlice Moore, who died in September, was a member of Kanawha County Schools Board of Education. In 1974, she objected to a new series of language arts textbooks, which sparked a turbulent public controversy that made national headlines and impacted how textbook publishers produced educational material. This photo shows Moore at a pivotal meeting during the textbook controversy reviewing transcripts as protesters watch through the board office auditorium windows.
“I felt like I was standing still and the world was just flying in circles around me. There was a whirlwind alright, and all I did was just stand where I had always stood and it was driving liberalism crazy.”— Alice Moore
Credit: Charleston NewspapersTrey Kay visited his friend Alice Moore at her home in Acton, Tennessee in July 2023. It was their last visit.
Credit: Amy Tillman
Listen to Us & Them episodes that feature Alice Moore in:
Sometimes friendships show up when we don’t expect them. That was true of Us & Them host Trey Kay’s friendship with Alice Moore — a conservative Christian county school board member, who sparked a turbulent textbook controversy in Kay’s home county back in the 1970s. Kay and Moore saw education, religion, homosexuality and Trump very differently, but were still dear friends.
Friendships that last through the years can be a remarkable gift.
In this episode of Us & Them, host Trey Kay remembers his dear friend Alice Moore who recently passed away. Kay talks about the gentle kindness that defined their relationship, which stretched across the divides of their social and political beliefs.
Moore made West Virginia — and national — headlines in the 1970s over a contentious and violent conflict focused on public school textbooks. As a county school board member, Moore opposed new language arts textbooks because they offended her religious and political views. Kay says his documentary on the Kanawha County Textbook War introduced him to Moore and opened the door to a friendship that has taught him about relationships, politics and people.
This episode of Us & Them is presented with support from the West Virginia Humanities Council, the Daywood Foundation and the CRC Foundation.
Subscribe to Us & Them on Apple Podcasts, NPR One, RadioPublic, Spotify, Stitcher and beyond.
In this 1976 campaign ad, Alice Moore urges schools to teach “basic skills” and not interfere with the “moral, ethical, [or] religious beliefs” of parents.
Credit: West Virginia State ArchivesIn 1974, Alice Moore was admired and lionized by many Kanawha County residents for opposing the adoption of a new set of language arts textbooks. Textbook supporters thought they would introduce students to the concept of multiculturalism. Moore and her fellow protesters felt the books undermined traditional American values and attacked Christianity.
Credit: Charleston Newspapers At a pivotal meeting during the 1974 Kanawha County textbook controversy, Alice Moore reviews transcripts as protesters watch through the board office auditorium windows.
Credit: Charleston NewspapersTrey Kay and Alice Moore at a panel discussion at the West Virginia Culture Center in 2009.
Credit: Greg Isaacs
Videos courtesy of Amy Tillman
Trey Kay visited his friend Alice Moore at her home in Acton, Tennessee in July 2023. It was their last visit.
Science and research can lead to important breakthroughs, but in a divided America, not everyone trusts the results. In this Us & Them, host Trey Kay speaks with three expert guests before an audience full of curious people at Marshall University in Huntington, West Virginia and asks: How shaken is our confidence in scientists and the scientific process?
Polls and surveys report our confidence is eroding and that we’ve lost trust in one another and in some of our most essential institutions.
As a followup to an Us & Them event in September at West Virginia University (WVU) on trust in the media, host Trey Kay has a new conversation focused on our trust in science. The COVID-19 pandemic continues to present examples of our differing confidence in science and medicine, but there are other flash points.
We continue the abortion debate with the central question of when life begins. A few decades ago, evolution was in the spotlight with divisions over the origins of the universe, and of our own species. Now, climate change clearly illustrates our varying understanding about how the world is changing. All of those topics place a spotlight on our confidence in science.
There was a time when scientific advances were heralded – they saved lives, they told us more about our world. But now, some see scientists as villains who are not always worthy of our trust.
Have we simply lost interest in scientists or in the scientific process?
Join us for a new Us & Them from a recent live event on the campus of Marshall University in Huntington, West Virginia.
This episode of Us & Them is presented with support from the West Virginia Humanities Council, the Daywood Foundation and the CRC Foundation.
Subscribe to Us & Them on Apple Podcasts, NPR One, RadioPublic, Spotify, Stitcher and beyond.
Us & Them host Trey Kay leads a discussion about the erosion of public trust in science at Marshall University. His guests were Jonathan Zimmerman, University of Pennsylvania’s education historian and author of “Whose America? Culture Wars in the Public Schools”; Habiba Chichir, Marshall University’s biological anthropologist; and Dr. Adam Franks, MD, associate residency director for Marshall University’s Joan C. Edwards School of Medicine. The event was co-sponsored by Marshall University’s John Deaver Drinko Academy, the West Virginia Humanities Council and West Virginia Public Broadcasting, the broadcasting home of Us & Them.
Earlier this fall, Kay and his team hosted a “Diminished Trust” event at West Virginia University that focused on waning public trust in journalism and the news media. Kay says, “Trust is in short supply in America these days. Across the board and across the political spectrum people seem to lack trust in our government… in many of our agencies and organizations – even in each other. That’s why our Us & Them team is staging these conversations to encourage citizens to consider how long our society can sustain this erosion of trust.”
Credit: Julie BlackwoodA diverse group of students, faculty and community members came to Marshall University’s Drinko Library Atrium to join a live recording of West Virginia Public Broadcasting’s Us & Them.
Credit: Julie BlackwoodHabiba Chirchir is a biological anthropologist and anatomist at Marshall University in Huntington, West Virginia. Her research focuses on understanding the relationship between changes in skeletal anatomy and behavior by investigating trabecular and cortical bones. She conducts comparative analyses of anatomical features in fossil human ancestors, modern humans, other primates and non-primate animals including dogs and big cats using CT imaging. Chirchir earned a BA from the University of Nairobi, an MA from New York University, and a PhD from George Washington University. Chirchir is a research associate at the National Museum of Natural History, Smithsonian Institution.
Credit: Julie BlackwoodDr. Adam M. Franks is a family medicine physician at Marshall Health, and a professor and vice chair of the department of family and community health at Marshall University Joan C. Edwards School of Medicine. Franks’ practice provides full-spectrum care for children and adults, including obstetric and gynecologic care. His research areas include COVID-19 protocols, opioid monitoring protocols and blood borne pathogen exposure monitoring protocol adherence.
Credit: Julie BlackwoodJonathan Zimmerman is professor of History of Education and the Berkowitz professor in Education at the University of Pennsylvania. A former Peace Corps volunteer and high school teacher, Zimmerman is the author of “Whose America? Culture Wars in the Public Schools” (University of Chicago Press, 2nd ed.) and eight other books. Zimmerman is also a columnist at the Philadelphia Inquirer and a frequent contributor to the Washington Post, the New York Review of Books and other popular publications. Zimmerman taught for 20 years at New York University, where he received its Distinguished Teaching Award in 2008.
Credit: Julie Blackwood
Photo gallery: Members of the audience took advantage of a Q&A session to ask the guests a number of thoughtful questions. Credit: Julie Blackwood
For the past four years, Trey Kay has gathered a group of West Virginians — four from the political right and four from the left — for the “Us & Them Dinner Party.” The discussion at this year’s gathering focused on former President Trump’s indictments, abortion laws, diminishing public trust and more.
In a new podcast episode of Us & Them, host Trey Kay invites his dinner party guests to gather once again for some fresh conversation across the divide.
Kay’s friends, old and new, all share a favorite dish at the potluck meal while offering honest and sometimes raw accounts of how the social and political issues of the day affect them. Kay guides the conversation through a range of potential minefields – including the indictments of former President Trump, trust in elections, allegations of government corruption and our nation’s changing abortion laws.
The show highlights heartfelt disagreements while acknowledging moments of common ground.
This episode of Us & Them is presented with support from the West Virginia Humanities Council, the Daywood Foundation and the CRC Foundation.
Subscribe to Us & Them on Apple Podcasts, NPR One, RadioPublic, Spotify, Stitcher and beyond.
For the past four years, Trey Kay has hosted an Us & Them Dinner Party. The first few gatherings were virtual due to COVID, but for the past two years, the group has met face-to-face to discuss some of the tough issues of our time. This year’s party included Terri Triplett DeLauder (on the upper right gesturing with her hands), Marsha Albert, Jay Gould, Elliot G. Hicks, Kay, David Pendrake, Joe Solomon, Karen Cross and Frank Annie.
Credit: Kyle VassThe Us & Them Dinner Party group this year included two city council members, Joe Solomon (green baseball cap) and Frank Annie (in the plaid shirt on the right), who represent different political parties but campaigned together saying they would work together to “get things done.”
Credit: Kyle VassUs & Them host Trey Kay pointed out some of the dessert options on the table for the guests at his dinner party.
We used to trust the news, but now some polls and surveys show that our confidence has eroded. Recently, the Us & Them team partnered with West Virginia University’s Reed College of Media for a conversation on diminished trust in journalism. Host Trey Kay spoke with Raney Aronson-Rath, editor-in-chief and executive producer of PBS Frontline, and June Cross, director of the documentary journalism program at the Columbia Journalism School.
Trust is in short supply in America as social and political divides continue to erode our faith in our democratic republic. National surveys and polls show that people distrust each other as well as our government and institutions.
Us & Them Host Trey Kay recently partnered with West Virginia University’s Reed College of Media for a conversation focusing on diminished trust in journalism and the news media. He spoke with special guests Raney Aronson-Rath, editor-in-chief and executive producer of PBS Frontline, and June Cross, director of the documentary journalism program at the Columbia Journalism School.
The panelists agreed that the rise of social media and the hollowing out of local news have been part of the problem. The event included thought-provoking audience questions and comments about who and what they trust. This episode of Us & Them draws from that live event as we figure out where to turn for reliable information.
This episode of Us & Them is presented with support from the West Virginia Humanities Council, and the CRC Foundation.
Subscribe to Us & Them on Apple Podcasts, NPR One, RadioPublic, Spotify, Stitcher and beyond.
Professor June Cross (left) of the Columbia Journalism School and Raney Aronson-Rath (center) editor-in-chief and executive producer of PBS Frontline, speak with Us & Them Host Trey Kay at West Virginia University.
Credit: Julie BlackwoodRaney Aronson-Rath is editor-in-chief and executive producer of Frontline, PBS’s flagship investigative journalism series. She is a leading voice on the future of journalism. Under her leadership, Frontline has won every major award in broadcast journalism.
Courtesy PhotoJune Cross is Columbia University’s Fred W. Friendly, professor of media and society, and director of the Documentary Journalism Program. Her work has been awarded with the highest honors in broadcast journalism, and her career has highlighted stories of the dispossessed and the intersection of race, politics, and public health. She joined the Columbia Journalism School in 2001, and she is now a tenured faculty member.
Courtesy Photo“We’ve heard from many people who say that the erosion in public trust in America is an existential threat to our democratic republic. We believe this is the issue of our times.” — Trey Kay, Us & Them host
Credit: Julie BlackwoodAn audience of students, faculty and community members from throughout West Virginia came to West Virginia University’s Reynolds Hall to listen to a discussion about diminished trust in the news media and journalism.
Credit: Julie BlackwoodI’m 18 and journalism has been so skewed for my whole life. My political consciousness kind of was there during the Trump presidency, and we know that since then the media has been so biased… Have you noticed any trends of apathy or ignorance among teenagers in my generation towards politics and current events? Because we just don’t care what the media has to say, because it’s been so bad.” — West Virginia University student
Credit: Julie Blackwood“I want to talk to you about the role and impact of technology and journalism. Should journalists be rushing towards new technologies? And what about also the impact of AI [Artificial Intelligence]? Raney, you said that you know journalists are trained to be able to distinguish reality from fake. What if we are soon or if not already in that time where we genuinely cannot tell what is true and what is not?” — Prof. Robert Quick, director of Marshall University’s W. Page Pitt School of Journalism & Mass Communications
Credit: Julie Blackwood“My trust in West Virginia media was diminished after the West Virginia Broadcasters Association and West Virginia media, including Public Broadcasting, changed the debate rules to exclude third party candidates. How do we restore our faith that we can return to a structure where outside voices and not just the two corporate parties have a seat at the table?” — Joel Brown, West Virginia University staff
Credit: Julie Blackwood“There is something to be said that we’ve splintered and that we’re getting news from TikTok instead of just the CBS Nightly News. That it’s not just Walter Cronkite, it’s a variety of voices that are doing this online. But at the same time, you both also mentioned that, that part of this splintering and this distrust resulted as a [democratizing of] the media ecosystem since more and more people have entered. And so I’m wondering, is part of restoring faith in the media, actually restoring some sense of gatekeepers?” — Amy Eddings, reporter from Ideastream Public Media in Cleveland, OH
Credit: Julie Blackwood“When do the individuals that are beholden to media, have a love for media and actually care about the reputation of media, begin to step in and say, ‘For the integrity of my profession, I need to show some authenticity and fix how we as a profession are seen, not the problems of the world per se, but how we conduct ourselves in this profession?’” — Meshea Poore, vice president for West Virginia University’s Division of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion
