Us & Them: Caught Between Two Worlds

Our nation’s capital can make and break careers. In a very short period, Cassidy Hutchinson went from being a complete political outsider to traveling on Air Force One with the President of the United States. She tells Us & Them host Trey Kay about life on either side of the political divide.

American politics is now a very ‘us and them’ world. Insiders know the privilege of power, but loyalties can shift and elections can make doors slam shut. 

Cassidy Hutchinson, who worked in the Trump administration, knows both sides. She was a dedicated White House staffer who’s best known for her stunning testimony to the January 6 committee. 

Us & Them host Trey Kay spoke with Hutchinson about her memoir Enough, which offers an intimate portrayal of life on the inside and a failed effort to stay in power. Hutchinson faced decisions some of her former superiors refused, including those who defied subpoenas to testify before a Congressional committee. 

This episode provides a front row seat to the beginnings of a legal saga that may hold an influence over this year’s elections. 

This episode of Us & Them is presented with support from the West Virginia Humanities Council and the CRC Foundation.

Subscribe to Us & Them on Apple Podcasts, NPR One, RadioPublic, Spotify, Stitcher and beyond.


Cassidy Hutchinson, former aide to Trump White House chief of staff Mark Meadows, was sworn in before testifying to the House select committee investigating the January 6 attacks on the US Capitol on June 28, 2022.

Credit: Jacquelyn Martin/AP Photo
Cassidy Hutchinson photographed outside of the White House at a time when she was a student at Christopher Newport University and participating in the White House Internship Program.

Courtesy of the White House
Cassidy Hutchinson and Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany stand behind as former President Donald Trump speaks to the press aboard Air Force One after a campaign event in Wisconsin.

“So within not even three years, I went from being a complete outsider to traveling on Air Force One with the President, almost everywhere he went. I’m at the last rally. It was in Wisconsin. I just sort of took a moment to myself and I just started walking around weaving in and out of all the supporters. I wanted to take that moment in. I’m looking around at all of these people … and I caught myself thinking, ‘These people are being duped. These people are being lied to,’ and they’re looking at him with so much hope and faith in their eyes. And I caught myself thinking that and I just sort of like snapped myself out of it. I felt like I was completely caught between two worlds.” — Cassidy Hutchinson

Credit: Tom Brenner/Reuters
Watch Cassidy Hutchinson’s testimony to the House select committee investigating the January 6 attacks on the US Capitol.

Learn more about Cassidy Hutchinson’s book Enough.

Us & Them: Potluck & Politics

For the past four years, Trey Kay has gathered a group of West Virginians — four from the political right and four from the left — for the “Us & Them Dinner Party.” The discussion at this year’s gathering focused on former President Trump’s indictments, abortion laws, diminishing public trust and more.

In a new podcast episode of Us & Them, host Trey Kay invites his dinner party guests to gather once again for some fresh conversation across the divide.

Kay’s friends, old and new, all share a favorite dish at the potluck meal while offering honest and sometimes raw accounts of how the social and political issues of the day affect them. Kay guides the conversation through a range of potential minefields – including the indictments of former President Trump, trust in elections, allegations of government corruption and our nation’s changing abortion laws. 

The show highlights heartfelt disagreements while acknowledging moments of common ground.

This episode of Us & Them is presented with support from the West Virginia Humanities Council, the Daywood Foundation and the CRC Foundation.

Subscribe to Us & Them on Apple Podcasts, NPR One, RadioPublic, Spotify, Stitcher and beyond.


For the past four years, Trey Kay has hosted an Us & Them Dinner Party. The first few gatherings were virtual due to COVID, but for the past two years, the group has met face-to-face to discuss some of the tough issues of our time. This year’s party included Terri Triplett DeLauder (on the upper right gesturing with her hands), Marsha Albert, Jay Gould, Elliot G. Hicks, Kay, David Pendrake, Joe Solomon, Karen Cross and Frank Annie.

Credit: Kyle Vass
The Us & Them Dinner Party group this year included two city council members, Joe Solomon (green baseball cap) and Frank Annie (in the plaid shirt on the right), who represent different political parties but campaigned together saying they would work together to “get things done.”

Credit: Kyle Vass
Us & Them host Trey Kay pointed out some of the dessert options on the table for the guests at his dinner party.

Credit: Kyle Vass

50 W.Va. Lawmakers Sign Letter Endorsing Donald Trump

A letter addressed ‘To the people of West Virginia’ has dozens of members from the West Virginia Legislature endorsing former President Donald Trump in the 2024 republican primary.

A letter addressed ‘To the people of West Virginia’ has dozens of members from the West Virginia Legislature endorsing former President Donald Trump in the 2024 republican primary.

“As president, Donald J. Trump fought for conservative republican principles,” the letter states. “Trump is the proven candidate best capable to govern our country.”

The letter is signed by 40 members of the House of Delegates and 10 senators, making up a bit less than half of the republican majority members in the two bodies. Trump endorsements in the letter include Senate Finance Chair Eric Tarr, R-Putnam, Senate Education Chair Amy Grady, R-Mason, and House Majority Leader Eric Householder, R-Berkeley.

Notably absent from the letter’s list are Speaker of the House Roger Hanshaw, R-Clay and Senate President Craig Blair, R-Berkeley.

The letter and endorsement effort was written and organized by Del. Josh Holstein, R-Boone. Holstein said he received a  communication from the Trump campaign about doing something from West Virginia that was supportive of the former president’s run for reelection.

“I said I’d like to do some legislative endorsements,” Holstein said. “I think we could get a significant number. So I started calling around. It’s a very mixed group. There’s a lot of leadership. There’s a lot of people from different areas of the state.”

Holstein thinks the impact of the letter shows a strong support for the former president. He said it’s a channeling of what most constituents already feel. Trump was the overwhelming West Virginia winner in both the 2016 and 2020 presidential elections.

“Our constituents are very supportive of him and his agenda,” Holstein said. “I just think that this reinforces that we answer to them, and we speak for them. I think this is one of the ways that we can do that appropriately.”

Holstein said the election and campaign cycle never really stops anymore, and putting out this letter, months ahead of a crowded republican presidential primary, becomes part of ‘the smooth flow of information.’”

“It’s important for candidates to get out early and get their feet in the water,” Holstein said. “I think that’s the reason we’re seeing so many presidential candidates, including the former president jump in so early, and that’s the reason we wanted to make a statement, as well.”

Del. Josh Holstein, R-Boone.

Credit: West Virginia Legislature

The West Virginia primary will be held on May 14, 2024.

Please Pass The Politics

In the run-up to the 2022 Midterm Elections, the Us & Them dinner party crew finally met face to face! They disagree on many things, including the 2020 Election and January 6. It’s not a surprise that there was plenty of conversation about the Supreme Court’s ruling over abortion access. After 2 years of COVID-19 social distance, the crew gathered like a family around one table, breaking bread, talking politics and trying to understand their differences.

It’s time for our Us & Them dinner party crew to share a meal in person!

This remarkable group of people has been meeting for two years, virtually, to talk across their social and political divides. There’s a lot they disagree on and there are moments of awkward concern at the table as they navigate that space.

In this new episode, we’re together to talk and listen and try to understand a little more about each other. Our guests agree that sharing food and views enhances a sense of camaraderie and helps us really see each other. This Us & Them dinner party episode offers respectful talk across the table.

This episode of Us & Them is presented with support from the West Virginia Humanities Council, The Greater Kanawha Valley Foundation, the CRC Foundation and the Daywood Foundation.

Subscribe to Us & Them on Apple Podcasts, NPR One, RadioPublic, Spotify, Stitcher and beyond.

Trey Kay with the Us & Them Dinner Party Crew: Felicia Bush, Anne Cavalier, Karen Cross and Jay Gould.
Us & Them host Trey Kay presents the serving table to his Dinner Party guests.
Sharon Smith Banks joins the Us & Them Dinner Party virtually.
The Us & Them Dinner Party Crew share their thoughts about abortion.

Do We Have A Hearing Problem?

The January 6th Hearings offer a continuing look into the 2021 riot at the U.S. Capitol. But plenty of people are just not interested. On this episode of Us & Them — who’s watching the hearings, who’s not and why?

Whatever you call what happened at the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, a rally — a protest — a riot — or an insurrection, the congressional investigation and hearings are forging new territory.

On this episode of Us & Them, we look at who’s watching the hearings, who’s not and why. What some call a clarifying moment in our nation’s experiment in democracy is surprisingly forgettable to others.

Host Trey Kay listens to a range of opinions about what that day meant and finds a new layer of uncomfortable truths behind how people feel. Kay uses the Us & Them approach to listen to others and finds, to his surprise, the outcome is far from what he imagined.

This episode of Us & Them is presented with support from the West Virginia Humanities Council, the Greater Kanawha Valley Foundation and the CRC Foundation.

Subscribe to Us & Them on Apple Podcasts, NPR One, RadioPublic, Spotify, Stitcher and beyond.

Chris Jones
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100 Days in Appalachia
Armed rioters stormed the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021. The face off with Capitol police to enter the building during a session of Congress resulted in the deaths of 5 people, including a Capitol Police officer.
House January 6th Select Committee listening to testimony in the summer of 2022.
Ed Gabriels
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Us & Them host Trey Kay is a devotee of open water swimming. He says “It’s where I get my best thinking done.” He was swimming while protesters stormed the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021 and he has taken to the water to process the January 6th Hearings.

Expert Says Mooney’s Response To Alleged Ethics Violations ‘Straight Out Of Trump's Playbook’

A U.S. House ethics committee recommends further investigation after finding Mooney likely broke House of Representative rules and federal law.

A political science expert says U.S. Rep. Alex Mooney is working directly from the “President Trump playbook” in response to alleged ethics violations.

A U.S. House ethics committee recommends further investigation after finding Mooney likely broke House of Representative rules and federal law.

The committee’s report includes allegations that Mooney took a family Caribbean vacation funded by a campaign client, had his staff run personal errands and tampered with evidence. A synopsis of the allegations and response can be found here.

This is the second round of alleged ethics violations for the Republican who just 13 days ago defeated fellow incumbent David Mckinley by 18 points in West Virginia’s Republican primary for the new Second Congressional District seat. Mooney is backed by former President Donald Trump.

Marybeth Beller, Marshall University associate professor of political science notes that the Congressional Ethics Committee is the only committee in the House of Representatives that is made up evenly of both parties, so it is strictly nonpartisan by design. That committee voted unanoumously to further investigate Mooney.

Mooney called the entire probe tainted. In a response statement, he said he made a fair vacation expense reimbursement to the company of a close friend who has provided campaign funds and aid. He said the allegations of evidence tampering and false statements stem from investigative lapses and blatant bias.

Beller notes the 54 page ethics committee report details numerous alleged violations.

“This report has many allegations of abuse of staff,” Beller said. “Using staff for personal things such as child care and dog grooming, but also to use staff to plan campaign events, which is strictly not allowed under house rules.”

Beller said, except for the reimbursement statement, Mooney does not respond to any other specific allegation. She said his defense comes straight from the ‘Trump playbook’ of using similar language in the allegations to attack his foes.

“Rather than actually addressing everything that’s listed in the report, he is simply saying the process was tainted,” Beller said. “So he’s using the Trump playbook to go back against the people on the committee who made the report.”

Beller said it is difficult to suggest that the committee findings are tainted because the committee is bipartisan. But she notes the committee is simply asking for further review and investigation.

Beller added that this is the second time that Mooney has come up under investigation with the House.

“The first was a report that came out much earlier indicating that he had used campaign contributions for personal use, including a ski trip with his family and use of very local restaurants to his home,” Beller said. “The Congressman responded that the skiing trip was actually connected to his campaign because he was out meeting with citizens. He said he was using the restaurant purchases to meet with citizens and therefore it was an allowable charge. But these restaurants were very, very close to the Congressman’s home.”

Penalties for violating House ethics rules include fines and reprimands. If Mooney is found to have violated the Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971, he could be prosecuted in court for violations of federal law.

What happens next?

Beller said the House will receive the report and decide if it will ask for further investigation.

“The House can call for hearings,” Beller said. “And bring members of the campaign for Congressman Mooney as well as government staff and require that they testify.”

In his response statement, Mooney noted that he has been, and will continue to be, in cooperation with the committee. He said he looks forward to working with the House Committee on Ethics to resolve these matters.

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