Us & Them: Can Former Prisoners Help Fill Our Workforce Gaps?

There’s a serious labor shortage in West Virginia. Some believe the 50,00 people released from jails and prisons each year could help. For this episode, Us & Them focuses on second-chance employment.

Updated: August 9, 2024 at 12:00 p.m.

There’s a serious labor shortage in the U.S. right now with millions of jobs going unfilled. Each year, West Virginia releases 50,000 people from state prisons and local jails and all those people need jobs. 

On this episode of Us & Them, host Trey Kay spotlights a recent event in Charleston, West Virginia called “Second Chances for a Stronger Workforce.” It brought together workforce and criminal justice leaders to make a case that ex-offenders can be part of the state’s economic growth strategy, if they’re given the support needed to overcome barriers like stigma, mental health and substance use disorders, and a lack of transportation and housing. Organizers sought to address employers’ concerns about hiring the formerly incarcerated, advocate for expanded reentry programs, and offer hope to those recently released that they can find stable jobs. 

This episode of Us & Them is presented with support from the West Virginia Humanities Council, the CRC Foundation and The Just Trust.

Subscribe to Us & Them on Apple Podcasts, NPR One, RadioPublic, Spotify, Stitcher and beyond.

Federal Magistrate Judge Michael Aloi, U.S. District Court of the Northern District of West Virginia.

Photo Credit: Michael Aloi

“Second Chances for a Stronger Workforce” featured people who work or have worked in West Virginia’s prison system, including those who’ve been incarcerated. The goal was to highlight how job training programs in prison can help the formerly incarcerated find meaningful work and how employers’ fears of recidivism can limit those opportunities. 

Hon. Michael Aloi, a federal magistrate judge in the U.S. District Court of the Northern District of West Virginia was the keynote speaker at the event, which took place in Charleston, West Virginia. 

Judge Aloi told the audience he believes in second chances. He presides over the Northern District’s Drug Court Program. 

Drug courts are set up to help nonviolent offenders whose criminal behavior is directly tied to their alcohol or drug use. Participants can get their charges dismissed if they successfully complete a treatment program.

“Tell me, why is it that we should be doing anything in  government, anything that, courts or anywhere else that makes it harder to get a job? Why is that good for us?” Aloi said. “I understand why people convicted of child molestation should not be working in daycare. I understand why people who embezzled money maybe shouldn’t be working in banks. Okay. But sometimes there’s just no connection.”

Aloi said 90 percent of those in the criminal justice system have experienced trauma. In West Virginia, about 60% of people sentenced to state prisons and local jails have substance use disorder. 

Aloi said the criminal justice system has improved the counseling and treatment programs offered to inmates. 

But he said recovering from trauma and addiction wasn’t enough to ensure an inmate’s successful reentry once they’re released.  

“Because you can recover, but unless you replace one life with another life, then you don’t have a complete recovery,” he told the audience. “That means in economic recovery it means that you need a GED. It means that you need a driver’s license. It means that you need a bank account. It means that you need a job.” 

Participants watched an excerpt of a documentary from Roadtrip Nation, a PBS series on careers. “Being Free” profiles three formerly incarcerated people and their search for work after prison.  After the screening, Us & Them host Trey Kay moderated a discussion on what it takes to make reentry and work training programs a success for the employer and the employee. 

Photo Credit: Julie Blackwood
Charlotte Webb (left) and Deb Harris.

Photo Credit: Julie Blackwood

Charlotte Webb and her husband are both in recovery from substance use disorder. They are the founders of Charleston Property Restoration, a home construction company that hires the formerly incarcerated. Many are also in recovery from substance use disorder.

Webb said other employers tell her the biggest concern they have in hiring former prisoners is that they’ll return to criminal behaviors. 

“‘What  will they do? If something happens, I’m going to be responsible. It’s a risk.’” I tell them the truth. Anybody you hire, there is a risk involved. You don’t know them. You don’t know what kind of job they’ll do,” said Webb. 

She said she’s had good experiences with those reentering the workforce after rehab or prison.

“They are so humble. They’re just, you know, so grateful for the opportunity and that they know that we’re trying to help them ameliorate the barriers,” said Webb.

Deb Harris is the lead transition agent for Jobs & Hope – WV, a state initiative to help inmates with substance use disorder gain work skills and find jobs once they’re released.  She says addiction recovery creates additional challenges.

“I mean, I think it’s hard enough to reenter from a facility, but when you pair that with having a substance use disorder, now you have to not only worry about housing, but you have to worry about your treatment and your mental health and getting connected to the recovery community and going to parole or probation and it just really adds to the list of troubles that you have when you already get out,” Harris said.

Amber Blankenship

Photo Credit: Julie Blackwood

Amber Blankenship is a Peer Reentry Coordinator with REACH Initiative, a reentry program.  She was formerly incarcerated herself.  

“I was released from prison with a trash bag of clothes on my back that was filled with more than just clothes. It was like judgment, shame, all that stuff. It was very heavy,” she said. 

Blankenship was helped by Jobs & Hope, which was in its infancy when she was released.

“Barrier after barrier was met with a solution. You know, who would have known I’d be sitting up here five years ago? I would have never thought that,” she said. 

Betsy Jividen

Photo Credit: Julie Blackwood

Members of the panel echoed Judge Aloi’s belief that West Virginia should be developing more policies to promote a second-chance workforce. 

“I think the state is starting to realize the only way out of this is through it,” said Harris. “So, we have to start putting some things in place that will be solutions, first of all, not create more consequences or setbacks for folks.” 

Harris’ suggestion may be a tough sell for West Virginia’s legislature.

The West Virginia Center on Budget and Policy, an independent policy research group, says that during the 2023 regular session, lawmakers introduced nearly 150 bills that create new criminal offenses or increased penalties for existing crimes. 

One that passed the Senate but failed in the House would have changed simple possession of some drugs from a misdemeanor to a felony offense. 

In its report, the Center on Budget and Policy noted that increased drug penalties have given West Virginia the highest incarceration rate in the nation.

The legislature also failed to expand transitional housing and did not take up bills that would have restored voting rights to people with felony convictions who are on probation or parole. 

Betsy Jividen is a former federal prosecutor and the ex-commissioner of West Virginia’s Division of Corrections and Rehabilitation. She served for four years before stepping down in 2022. 

She said she tells skeptical employers, citizens and lawmakers that helping people with past convictions find and keep a job is good for public safety. 

“If we’re bringing people home from prison and not helping them to become gainfully employed, there is probably one thing that is going to happen,” she said. “Do it for that reason, for public safety and for helping your community. It seems it should be a no-brainer that we all should want that for whatever reason, for whatever is motivating us in this journey.”

Amber Blankenship, Deb Harris, Betsy Jividen and Charlotte Webb with Us & Them host Trey Kay at the “Second Chances for a Stronger Workforce” event, which took place at the Capitol Theatre in Charleston, W.Va. in April 2024.

Photo Credit: Lalena Price

Asked to describe a successful second chance workforce program, Jividen said, “Getting employers talking about what these guys have been talking about. These are good employees.”

Charlotte Webb said successful reentry starts with building relationships.

“And so really having a relationship with someone who will be like, if you have trouble, call me. Because typically when I ask them, ‘Do you feel like you’ve got some system of support?’ nine times out of ten, they’ll say, ‘I have no one,’” Webb said.

Deb Harris, who is in recovery from substance abuse disorder, spent over a year with her children in supportive housing before striking out on her own. She said her transition back into the workforce began when a counselor who was signing her up for welfare benefits noticed she had scored high on an assessment test and asked her why she hadn’t gone to college.

“I am where I am today because somebody asked me that. ‘How come you haven’t gone to school? You’re smart. What do you want to do with your life?’ ‘I don’t know.’ And so, you know, I had people help me figure it out,” she said. “But I think, yes, I think we need to allow people to dream and have a vision.”

Amber Blankenship agreed. She said a second chance workforce begins with “a relationship and a dream.”

Related Us & Them episodes:

Re-Entry

Locked Out of Voting

Expungement — Between Hope and Danger

Court of Second Chances

Who Gets Stuck Behind Bars in West Virginia?

The Stigma of Recovery

Editor’s note: This post was updated to clarify background information about a source and add detail about legislation.

Re-Entry

At least 95% of people behind bars will be released. Some say a formerly incarcerated person’s successful reentry into society requires more focus on rebuilding an individual and less on punishment. Criminal justice reform efforts also address a victim-centered approach, but some believe that fundamental change might require addressing past trauma of victims as well as the perpetrators of crimes.

This episode was honored with a national first place documentary award from the Public Media Journalists Association. It was also part of a series of episodes that were honored with a first place award in public service through journalism from Virginia’s AP Broadcasters.

America’s prisons incarcerate people who’ve violated the law, but at some point, at least 95 percent of all state prisoners will be released back into the free world. Some struggle to navigate that transition successfully. 

On this encore Us & Them episode, host Trey Kay hears about the challenges of reentry. 

Some of those challenges are essential but basic — accessing identification materials, birth certificates, social security cards and identity cards. In prison, many of life’s decisions are made for men and women while life on the outside can mean thousands of choices each day. 

How do we want men and women coming back after prison? How well do programs designed to help formerly incarcerated people succeed? Some people suggest we must first recognize that many of the men and women serving time are victims themselves. Recognizing that trauma may be a powerful step to help people make a new life after they serve their time. 

This episode was honored with a national first place documentary award from the Public Media Journalists Association.  It was also part of a series of episodes that were honored with a first place award in public service through journalism from Virginia’s AP Broadcasters. 

This episode of Us & Them is presented with support from the West Virginia Humanities Council, the CRC Foundation, the Daywood Foundation and The Just Trust.

Subscribe to Us & Them on Apple Podcasts, NPR One, RadioPublic, Spotify, Stitcher and beyond.

After 10 years in a Connecticut prison, Daryl McGraw is now a criminal justice reform expert. He has experience in the areas of policy development, contract management and project coordination, as well as collaborating with grassroots peer-advocacy agencies and the Connecticut Department of Corrections. Mr. McGraw is a community organizer, activist and philanthropist. He serves on several boards involving re-entry and criminal justice reform in the state of Connecticut. He consults with law enforcement, universities, policy makers, behavioral health and addiction treatment facilities who are looking to expand their knowledge and expertise in the area of criminal justice reform. McGraw says he re-entered society with a plan for who he wanted to be. He then went on to found Formerly Inc. He says he’s been able to implement some reentry ideas to help other formerly incarcerated people reintegrate. 

Credit: C4 Innovations
Michelle Thompson is Director of Outreach at the Bible Center Church in Charleston, WV.  She is participating in a re-entry simulation staged at the West Virginia State Capitol during the 2023 legislation session. She says that in her job she helps people with all kinds of challenges like getting rental assistance, transportation, and assistance in paying bills. However, this is her first experience in understanding what a formerly incarcerated person experiences when re-entering society.

Credit: Trey Kay/West Virginia Public Broadcasting
Rahim Buford says he was “caged for 26 years of my life, from age 18 to 44, seven different prisons throughout the state of Tennessee.” He says that people of all ages, faiths, races experience challenges when they reenter society, and that’s why he started his nonprofit Unheard Voices Outreach.

Courtesy
Thomas Murphy or “Tom Tom” was incarcerated for 31 years. His story of re-entry has been quite challenging.

Courtesy
Jeremiah Nelson is with the West Virginia Reentry Council and the REACH Initiative. REACH stands for “Restore, Empower, Attain Connections with Hope.” They organized the re-entry simulation staged at the West Virginia State Capitol during the 2023 legislation session. Jeremiah was formerly incarcerated and says for some reentering society after incarceration, the most important things can be the most basic. Birth certificates, social security cards, IDs and transportation make the difference between surviving in the outside world and landing back inside. In prison, he says a person only makes about a hundred decisions a day. You’re told when and where to do everything. On the outside, life can mean 30,000 decisions a day.

Credit: Trey Kay/West Virginia Public Broadcasting
Verna Wyatt and Valerie Craig are victims advocates and co-founders of Tennessee Voices for Victims. Wyatt started this work after her sister-in-law, who had been her best friend for 15 years, was raped and murdered. She said her whole world was turned upside down.  “I was so angry at people that could do such horrible, despicable things to innocent people that I wanted to prevent that from happening to other people.”

Courtesy

Us & Them Encore: Mental Health Crisis Behind Bars In W.Va.

Hundreds of thousands of people with mental illnesses are caught up in a criminal justice system that was never intended to treat them. This encore Us & Them episode was part of a series that was honored with a first place award from Virginia’s Associated Press Broadcasters for “Public Service Through Journalism.” In this report, we hear what it’s like to live with mental illness behind bars in the Mountain State.

Overcrowding and understaffing have pushed West Virginia’s prisons and jails to what many believe is a crisis point. 

On this episode of Us & Them, we hear what incarceration is like for someone in a mental health crisis. Hundreds of thousands of people with mental illnesses are caught up in a criminal justice system that was never intended to treat them. 

In a recent special session, West Virginia lawmakers earmarked $30 million to address staffing shortages and provide pay raises and retention bonuses to correctional staff. There is also $100 million for deferred facility maintenance. However, a new lawsuit against the state on behalf of West Virginia inmates, demands more than three times that amount is needed. 

This episode of Us & Them is presented with support from the Just Trust, the West Virginia Humanities Council, the CRC Foundation and the Daywood Foundation.

Subscribe to Us & Them on Apple Podcasts, NPR One, RadioPublic, Spotify, Stitcher and beyond.


Bishop Mark Brennan and Jeff Allen, director of West Virginia Council of Churches, listen to Beverly Sharp, founder of the REACH Initiative in West Virginia at a West Virginia Council of Churches press conference on the subject of the criminal justice system in West Virginia.

Photo Credit: Kyle Vass
Lara Lawson from Milton in Cabell County, W.Va., has her master’s degree in sociology and is passionate about social justice issues. She has also been diagnosed with bipolar disorder and manages that condition. Lawson told Us & Them host Trey Kay about her experience during a manic period of her illness when she was placed in Western Regional Jail and deprived of mental health medication. While Lawson said she was not suicidal – she recalled being put in a suicide watch cell for observation.

Photo Credit: Trey Kay/West Virginia Public Broadcasting
Us & Them host Trey Kay met with investigative reporter Mary Beth Pfeiffer at her home in the Hudson Valley of New York to talk about her book Crazy In America: The Hidden Tragedy of Our Criminalized Mentally Ill. Pfeiffer’s book shows how people suffering from schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, clinical depression and other serious psychological illnesses are regularly incarcerated because medical care is not available. Once behind bars, she reports that people with mental illness are frequently punished for behavior that is psychotic, not criminal. Pfeiffer’s reporting examines a society that incarcerates its weakest and most vulnerable citizens — causing some to emerge sicker and more damaged.

Photo Credit: Trey Kay/West Virginia Public Broadcasting
Ashley Omps testified at the West Virginia State Capitol before the Senate Oversight Committee on Regional Jail and Correctional Facility Authority. She told this group of powerful strangers about the worst experience in her life — a time when she was incarcerated in Eastern Regional Jail after an intense, traumatic event and said she was denied mental health treatment. Omps  said it was uncomfortable to share her personal story, but it made a difference. West Virginia law has changed, because people like Ashley took their stories to the capitol.

Photo Credit: Trey Kay/West Virginia Public Broadcasting

Us & Them Remembrance — 50 Years Ago: Reflecting On A Pivotal Kanawha County Board Of Education Meeting

Fifty years ago, June 27, 1974, the Kanawha County Board of Education set off a chapter of the nation’s culture wars as it debated whether to purchase a controversial series of new textbooks. The meeting room was packed and emotions were hot.

This op-ed is a companion piece to the Us & Them episode “Revisiting The Great Textbook War.”

Fifty years ago, June 27, 1974, the Kanawha County Board of Education set off a chapter of the nation’s culture wars as it debated whether to purchase a controversial series of new textbooks. The meeting room was packed and emotions were hot. 

I was entering the seventh grade that year and the board was considering new English and language arts textbooks to reflect America’s multicultural society. School board member Alice Moore, the wife of a local preacher, was offended by some of the material that she believed to be unpatriotic and anti-Christian. 

However, there were many people in Kanawha County who supported these new multicultural textbooks. The West Virginia Human Rights Commission, Council of Churches and the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) all wanted classroom materials to include works by African American writers like James Baldwin, Gwendolyn Brooks and Langston Hughes.

The June 27 school board meeting and the decision whether to purchase the books was a high-stakes issue with significant consequences. The debate that day mirrored other culture war battles like the Scopes Monkey Trial in the 1920s — as well as the contentious protests today over books with LGBTQ themes. 

But what had people so worked up in Kanawha County in 1974?

Some textbook critics feared references to the Vietnam War might open the door to unpatriotic views. The opponents cited an English textbook with an e.e. cummings poem they called pornographic. Another book included a racially and sexually-charged passage from former Black Panther Eldridge Cleaver.

At the pivotal meeting on June 27, 1974, Kanawha County School Board member Alice Moore reviews transcripts as protesters watch through the board office auditorium windows. 

“I almost think that Kanawha County was a test case. This was happening in different places around the country, but I wonder if they didn’t think they could come into West Virginia … that these were backward, uneducated people. They could come into this little state; they could do whatever they wanted to and nobody was going to question them.”

— Alice Moore

Photo Credit: Charleston Newspapers

Alice Moore was offended by the inclusion of a Sigmund Freud essay. “[Freud] said every child — every boy desires to have sex with his mother and every girl desires to have sex with her father,” Moore recalled when I interviewed her in 2009 for my audio documentary The Great Textbook War. “And that was so repulsive to me, to think that any child would see that, I knew that thought would never leave their mind.”

Sixteen people testified at the board meeting that night — 10 in favor of the new books and six against them. There were shouts of “Yeah,” “Amen,” and wild applause whenever someone spoke against the books. 

Mike Wenger supported the new textbooks at that meeting. Wenger said it was important to give children a sense of their reality. “If I have been successful as a parent, nothing my children can read in school can hurt them,” Wenger said in his testimony to the board. “To summarize, this is the only world in which we live, we cannot hide it from our children, we can only determine when they will find it and where they will find it, let them find it today rather than tomorrow and let them find it here in our schools rather than on some street corner in New York or in some rice paddy in Vietnam.” 

As a seventh grader, I saw Kanawha County’s textbook war as symbolic. It brought violence to my city — to places I knew — and showed me adults who were unwilling or unable to compromise. When I reviewed the audio from the June 27 meeting, I recognized familiar voices: one of my neighbors spoke, and the moms of some of my school friends. Others I didn’t know at the time but they would be remembered for their comments. Listening to that audio made me tense up, even though I already knew the outcome. I thought about how uneasy people must have felt 50 years ago.

The conflict revealed in that board meeting continues to bubble up in our public schools. In Dayton, Tennessee in the 1920s during the Scopes Monkey Trial, the issue was whether the Biblical and scientific account of the origins of life could coexist in public schools. In Kanawha County, the question in 1974 was how school classrooms could include the full spectrum of the Black experience in American culture and think critically about societal structures. Culture war battles continue today as the National Education Association reports that nearly half of schools face challenges to teaching about issues of race and racism, and their policies and practices relating to LGBTQ issues. One third of schools report attempts to limit access to books in the library. 

Most everyone agrees the stakes are high. As the culture wars play out in our public schools, these debates can really undermine confidence. Our education system values local control, which means each of the nation’s nearly 13,600 school districts tackles these debates independently. Educators, parents and students all play a crucial role, each bringing their own sense of values and rights to the discussion. That’s often why this fundamental rift in American values bubbles to the surface. We all believe in rights and have values, but whose rights and values take precedence?

It’s so easy in today’s climate to create an “us versus them” atmosphere. But as I’ve learned from talking across the cultural divide for more than a decade, when we really listen to each other, there are ways to see fresh perspectives and sometimes even come to new conclusions. Yet, when we’re in the middle of a values battle, it’s pretty scary, because we just don’t know how things will end. 

——

This episode of Us & Them is presented with support from the West Virginia Humanities Council, CRC Foundation and Daywood Foundation.

This episode was honored with George Foster Peabody, Edward R. Murrow and Alfred I. duPont-Columbia University Awards.

Subscribe to Us & Them on Apple Podcasts, NPR One, RadioPublic, Spotify, Stitcher and beyond.

 

Revisiting The Great Textbook War

Fifty years ago this month, the Kanawha County School Board approved new multicultural textbooks. Violent protests followed when some parents said the books undermined their beliefs. During a summer of unrest, boycotts shut down businesses. And in the fall, thousands of families kept their children home from school. The textbook war made national headlines, created a launching pad for the new right political movement and placed school boards at the heart of the culture wars.

Read the companion piece to this episode from Us & Them Host Trey Kay.

Fifty years ago this month, a fierce controversy erupted over newly adopted school textbooks in Kanawha County, West Virginia. 

The fight led to violent protests in the state. Dynamite hit vacant school buildings. Bullets hit empty school buses. And protesting miners forced some coal mines to shut down — because of the new multicultural textbooks. 

The classroom material focused on an increasingly global society, introducing students to the languages and ideas of diverse cultures. The material was an affront to many Christian social conservatives who felt the books undermined traditional American values. They saw their religion replaced by another belief system: secular humanism. 

Many of those frustrations boiled over in Kanawha County in the summer of 1974.

This episode of Us & Them is presented with support from the West Virginia Humanities Council, CRC Foundation and Daywood Foundation.

This episode was honored with George Foster Peabody, Edward R. Murrow and Alfred I. duPont-Columbia University awards.

Subscribe to Us & Them on Apple Podcasts, NPR One, RadioPublic, Spotify, Stitcher and beyond.


At the pivotal meeting on June 27, 1974, Kanawha County School Board member Alice Moore reviews transcripts as protesters watch through the board office auditorium windows. 

“I almost think that Kanawha County was a test case. This was happening in different places around the country, but I wonder if they didn’t think they could come into West Virginia… that these were backward, uneducated people. They could come into this little state; they could do whatever they wanted to and nobody was going to question them.”

— Alice Moore

Photo Credit: Charleston Newspapers
Black power leader Eldridge Cleaver’s Soul on Ice was one of the leading sources of controversy.

Photo Credit: Trey Kay/West Virginia Public Broadcasting
A parent expresses her frustration over the adopted books outside of the Kanawha County Board of Education building.

Photo Credit: Charleston Newspapers
A young girl succinctly summarizes the bottom line of the 1974 Kanawha County textbook protest.

Photo Credit: Charleston Newspapers
The Rev. Marvin Horan, shown here at a November 1974 rally, was the most prominent person to serve significant jail time for his role in the protests. He served three years for conspiring to “damage and destroy two schools.”

Photo Credit: Charleston Newspapers
The American flag was an ever-present symbol at nearly every anti-textbook gathering. The Rev. Avis Hill is shown here speaking outside the school board office.

Photo Credit: Charleston Newspapers
Miners buck the will of their union leaders and join the textbook boycott.

Photo Credit: Charleston Newspapers
A line of textbook protesters picket outside Midway Elementary School in Campbells Creek, W.Va.

Photo Credit: Charleston Newspapers
On Nov. 9, 1974, protesters take to the streets the day after the school board reinstates the books.

Photo Credit: Charleston Newspapers
Textbook supporters pointed to the apparent contradictions between the violence and the protesters’ religious beliefs.

Photo Credit: Charleston Newspapers
West Virginia State Trooper D. N. Miller’s cruiser was shot by a sniper on Nov. 13, 1974 while escorting a school bus.

Photo Credit: Charleston Newspapers
Klansman Dale Reusch attends a January 1975 anti-textbook rally on the steps of the West Virginia Capitol; the Rev. Marvin Horan is holding the umbrella.

Photo Credit: Charleston Newspapers

Us & Them Encore: SNAP — Do The Hungry Get More Policy Than Nutrition?

Hunger and poverty are universal challenges, but in the U.S. for more than 50 years, support programs like SNAP, the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, have provided help to those in need. On this Us & Them, host Trey Kay talks with three people — a retiree, a mom and a lawmaker — who all say that nutritional support has made a difference in their lives.

Forty-two million Americans, or about 12 percent of the the population, need help feeding their families. 

That help often comes from a federal program called SNAP — which stands for Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, formerly called food stamps. The Mountain State is one of the top recipients of SNAP benefits. Nearly 45 percent of recipients are older adults or families with someone who’s disabled, while nearly 60 percent are families with children. 

The nation’s food support program began six decades ago, as a pilot program in McDowell County. Since then, it has reduced poverty and hunger across the nation. 

In an award-winning encore episode of Us & Them, host Trey Kay talks with three people — a retiree, a mom and a lawmaker who all say that nutritional support has made a difference in their lives. 

This episode of Us & Them is presented with support from the West Virginia Humanities Council and the CRC Foundation.

Subscribe to Us & Them on Apple Podcasts, NPR One, RadioPublic, Spotify, Stitcher and beyond.


Reenie Kittle, 75, from Harding, W.Va., is a widow and retired with a physical disability. She does what she can to get by on a meager fixed income.

“How do I live on a fixed income? Very scarcely,” Kittle told Us & Them host Trey Kay as they sat in the living room of her converted double-wide home. “So I have to buy pellets for my wood stoves in the winter months. I have to pay the water bill … all my bills. I don’t go out very much ‘cause I can’t afford the gas. With my income and my bills of $1,300 a month, I am lucky if I have $200, maybe $250 left over to try to find food. My neighbor sometimes will bring me supper, and that’s been a blessing to me. They try to help me food-wise as much as they can. For SNAP, I qualify for $23 a month. It is nothing. They just tell me that they’ve reviewed my case and that’s as much as they can do. They have no extra money to give and that’s it.

Photo Credit: Trey Kay/West Virginia Public Broadcasting
Each month, Reenie Kittle heads to the grocery store in Elkins, W.Va. with $23 from the federal government’s SNAP program. SNAP stands for Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program — it used to be called “Food Stamps.” 

Reenie beelines past the produce section … beyond the tower of packaged strawberries, the cold case full of carrots and greens. She’s not here to buy what she wants to eat. She’s here to stretch the money she is allotted to the very last penny.

Photo Credit: Trey Kay/West Virginia Public Broadcasting
Roughly 18 percent of West Virginia residents use SNAP benefits. Nationally, that number is more like 12 percent, which means that 42 million people across America need help getting enough to eat. 

Seth DiStefano, with the West Virginia Center on Budget and Policy, lobbies to support programs like SNAP — which became a centerpiece of the social reform programs in President Lyndon Johnson’s “Great Society” initiative. DiStefano says SNAP has its roots in West Virginia. This goes back to when President John F. Kennedy started the original “Food Stamp” program in McDowell County.

“It truly is one of the most effective anti-poverty programs in the history of the United States,” DiStefano says.

Photo Credit: West Virginia Center on Budget & Policy
Mary Kathryn Molitor, 34, lives in St. Albans, W.Va. with her three daughters and an old dog named Brenda. Mary Kathryn works full-time at a local credit union, making about $13 an hour. When the Us & Them team first spoke with her, she wasn’t sure she wanted to talk on the record about her relationship with SNAP saying it was her “dirty little secret.”

“I don’t tell people that I use SNAP benefits because I know what that person looks like and that person doesn’t look like me,” Molitor explains while pulling one of her wriggling twin daughters up onto her hip. “That person doesn’t have a college education. That person doesn’t have a full-time job. That person isn’t who I am. I find it embarrassing. I don’t want to admit that I need help.”

Photo Credit: Trey Kay/West Virginia Public Broadcasting
To supplement her family’s food supply, Mary Kathryn Molitor often goes to the Capital Market in Charleston and checks to see if they have wilted vegetable plants that are about to be discarded. She takes them home to plant in her garden.

“Those are pumpkins right there. Volunteers. All those tomatoes? Volunteers. Sunflowers? Volunteers,” Molitor says while showing Us & Them host Trey Kay the plants around her home. “After Halloween — I threw my pumpkins into a couple of different areas and they rotted, seeded and they are giants now!  They grow on their own. They volunteer! If anybody needs a free pumpkin this year, just come to my house!”

Photo Credit: Trey Kay/West Virginia Public Broadcasting
Del. Jonathan Pinson represents the 17th District of West Virginia’s House of Delegates, on the western border of the state including parts of Mason and Jackson counties. Pinson, a Republican and a Baptist pastor was first elected in 2020. 

“I cannot say that I have issues with [SNAP] in general,” Pinson told Us & Them host Trey Kay when they met in Point Pleasant, W.Va. “One of the reasons that I can’t say that I’m opposed to that is because I think back prior to my adoption … at 15 years old … I go back to Saturday mornings sitting in a line at the armory in Florida, picking up corn flakes and powdered milk and five pound jugs of peanut butter. And I can tell you that there were many, many meals that I wouldn’t have had, had my parents not been on food stamps — and at the time, ‘commodities,’ that’s what it was called. So I can’t say that I’m opposed to the government helping when help is warranted.”

Photo Credit: West Virginia Legislature
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