Reporter Roundtable Talks Food Dye Ban, Virus Legislation And Water Quality

On this episode of The Legislature Today, WVPB reporters Briana Heaney and Curtis Tate are joined by Brad McElhinny of MetroNews for our weekly reporter roundtable.

On this episode of The Legislature Today, WVPB reporters Briana Heaney and Curtis Tate are joined by Brad McElhinny of MetroNews for our weekly reporter roundtable.

Also, West Virginia is the first state to ban a list of food dyes, including Red 40. The legislation got bipartisan support, with only a few no votes. Briana Heaney has that story.

A bill that would loosen regulations on above ground storage tanks cleared the Senate. A leaking tank prompted the West Virginia water crisis in 2014, where more than 300,000 West Virginians lost access to safe drinking water for a week or more. Heaney also has this story.

And we have our weekly feature with two West Virginia high school students. Our student reporters, Malia Saar and Emma Browning, take a close look at some bills that affect education and career opportunities.

Having trouble viewing the video below? Click here to watch it on YouTube.

The Legislature Today is West Virginia’s only television/radio simulcast devoted to covering the state’s 60-day regular legislative session.

Watch or listen to new episodes Monday through Friday at 6 p.m. on West Virginia Public Broadcasting.

Protecting The Hellbender Salamander And Holiday Sustainability, This West Virginia Morning

On this West Virginia Morning, discussing the proposed listing of the Eastern Hellbender Salamander on the endangered list and making the holidays more sustainable.

On this West Virginia Morning, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has proposed to list the Eastern Hellbender Salamander as endangered. Curtis Tate spoke with Than Hitt, senior scientist with the West Virginia Rivers Coalition about the Hellbender’s habitat in Appalachia.

And the holiday season is coming to an end, but some of its leftovers are still hanging around. Amy White, director of sustainability at Marshall University, spoke to Chris Schulz about conscientious ways of cleaning up after the festivities, as well as green tips for next year.

West Virginia Morning is a production of West Virginia Public Broadcasting, which is solely responsible for its content.

Support for our news bureaus comes from Shepherd University and Marshall University School of Journalism and Mass Communications.

Maria Young produced this episode.

Listen to West Virginia Morning weekdays at 7:43 a.m. on WVPB Radio or subscribe to the podcast and never miss an episode. #WVMorning

Mine Drainage Treatment Brings Life, Opportunity Back To Deckers Creek

Indicator species are returning to Deckers Creek after years of acid mine drainage treatment.

Mining is a key part of West Virginia’s past. But pollution from abandoned mine drainage is one of the unfortunate legacies of the state’s energy history. Now, one waterway in Monongalia County is on a path to recovery with new opportunities on the horizon.

Running more than 20 miles across Preston County and into Monongalia County, Decker’s Creek discharges into the Monongahela River in the heart of Morgantown. Back in May, Brian Hurley walked West Virginia Public Broadcasting through a water treatment location near Kingwood. He is the director of Friends of Deckers Creek (FODC), a nonprofit aimed at improving the quality of Deckers Creek as well as promoting recreation.

“We’ve got a [mine] portal, a collapsed portal right up there. It’s pretty overgrown,” Hurley said. “Now this is another former collapsed portal, you can kind of see where all the muck is coming out.” 

Three long-abandoned mine portals at the site are almost completely obscured by vegetation, except for one, which oozes the unmistakable orange sludge of mine drainage. But just feet from the old portal, the ooze passes under a large green tower on the edge of a pond. 

Lime from the green tower is added to the water to normalize its pH before it enters King Creek, a tributary of Deckers Creek. Hurley said normal water pH is neutral, around 7, but some sites he has worked at have registered below a 3 on the scale, closer to vinegar or lemon juice and not habitable for most aquatic species. 

“On the other side there’s actually a pipe that puts water into this tipping bucket,” Hurley said. “When it loads up, the weight of the water and lime tips itself back and forth and that sort of gives you your dose of lime.”

After getting dosed with lime, the water from the abandoned mine portal is diverted again.

“So this is our holding pond, and the standard tends to be about a 24-hour hold time,” Hurley said. “That should give time for all the metals to settle out. And you can see the orange color, and you can see all the sludge in there. That’s how you know it’s actually working.” 

Hurley’s organization has led acid mine drainage mitigation on Decker’s Creek for almost 25 years. FODC maintains eight small and mid-scale treatment locations like the King’s Creek station that have slowly helped to improve the quality of the creek’s water. 

“The state of Deckers Creek back in the day, numerous people have used the term ‘cesspool,’” Hurley said. “It was just in horrible, horrible shape. It was bright orange and bright red, that was from the acid mine drainage.”

Recently, the addition of the large-scale Richard Mine acid mine drainage treatment plant about a mile upstream from Morgantown has been the final piece of the puzzle to complete the cleanup of Deckers Creek. Since its activation in April, the Richard Mine site has led to reports of indicator species returning to the waterway.

“We have multiple age classes of trout, brown trout in Deckers Creek,” Hurley said. “That is real, we get pictures of them and it’s super, super exciting.”

The Richard Mine acid mine drainage treatment plant will help keep thousands of pounds of acidity and metals from entering Deckers Creek each year.
Chris Schulz/West Virginia Public Broadcasting

The Richard Mine plant is part of a more than $140 million investment to address pollution from abandoned mine lands in West Virginia from the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act. The treatment plant works on the same principles as the FODC sites but several orders of magnitude larger, and will stop thousands of pounds of acidity and metals from entering the waterway. 

Standing on the banks of Deckers Creek across from the new treatment center, Hurley pointed out the streaks of heavy metals still visible on the stream from almost a century of previously unchecked abandoned mine drainage.

“As you look downstream on river right, the rocks on the right side, you can kind of see the remnants of the aluminum on all those rocks,” Hurley said. “You can kind of look at the distinction between river right and river left. See how orange those rocks are and how white those rocks are here? That is just a clear line, delineation of where the former Richard Mine drainage is coming in. It’s less showy now than it was, but before they built this it was just painfully bright streaking of aluminum and iron there.”

West Virginia University and other regional partners are exploring the possibility of extracting those metals, and other rare earth metals, from sites like the Richard mine for industrial use.

But for locals like Louis Giuliani, the creek’s cleanup presents another opportunity. 

“Part of the idea, when we started talking about Deckers Creek as a potential asset, the notional idea said, ‘Well, okay, we understand that the Richard mine treatment center is going to be up and running here in the next year or two. Let’s take advantage of that,’” he said.

Giuliani is the owner of music venue 123 Pleasant Street, and one of downtown Morgantown’s community leaders exploring the new possibilities of recreation in Deckers Creek. Through the organization Main Street Morgantown, Giuliani and others have commissioned a feasibility study to create interactive water features.

“We started querying about potential water dynamics, whether it be white water, whether it be a floating River, just some things that would be an attraction,” he said. 

The water feature on Deckers Creek above downtown would form part of a linear park, connecting amenities and attractions along the existing Deckers Creek Trail.

“Now you’re looking at Morgantown as being something beyond just this college town. Now it becomes a point of interest,” Guiliani said. “You’re leaning into the things that are already proven concepts, whether it be a Boulder, Colorado or a Greenville, South Carolina, or, on larger dynamics, San Antonio. These water features, when you refine them and take care of them, prove to be catalysts for transforming communities.”

That vision is still years away from being realized, but due to Deckers’ pollution it was inconceivable to invite residents and visitors to interact with its waters just a few years ago.

With thousands of miles of waterways across West Virginia still struggling with pollution from mine drainage, Deckers Creek is showing that cleanup can happen, and bring new opportunities on the other side.

Report: Mountain Valley Pipeline Testing Released Water Again

The June 4 rupture involved an 8-inch connecting hose. According to a report Equitrans filed to Virginia’s DEQ, the release lasted for 15 minutes until a valve was closed, shutting it off.

Updated on Thursday, June 27, 2024 at 4 p.m.

Testing equipment on the Mountain Valley Pipeline (MVP) experienced a rupture in southwest Virginia this month, days before it asked for and received permission to begin carrying natural gas.

The June 4 rupture involved an 8-inch connecting hose. According to a report Equitrans filed to Virginia’s DEQ, the release lasted for 15 minutes until a valve was closed, shutting it off.

The rupture happened after hydrostatic testing of the pipeline, where water is pumped through it at high pressure to demonstrate its integrity. The hose was used to release water from the pipeline section under inspection, following the testing, when the hose failed.

Equitrans Midstream, the pipeline’s builder, reported the incident to the Virginia Department of Environmental Quality (DEQ), the Virginia Department of Emergency Management and the Virginia Department of Health’s Office of Drinking Water.

Residents and community groups have been concerned about the project’s safety since a May 1 rupture released a large volume of water and badly damaged a section of the 42-inch main pipe.

They also have expressed anger that Equitrans Midstream didn’t let them know when the pressure testing took place or about the unintentional releases of water, which in some cases caused property damage. A landowner in Bent Mountain, Virginia, reported the May 1 incident. 

The June 4 rupture, at Elliston, Virginia, took place 10 days before the pipeline began operating

Neither the company nor its regulators have shared the details of a laboratory analysis of the pipe that was damaged on May 1. They also did not elaborate on what happened on June 4 and how much water was released.

The DEQ report categorizes the incident as an “unauthorized discharge of pollutant(s)” and identifies the pollutant as non-potable water. 

The incident may have affected water quality in the Roanoke River, which supplies drinking water to three municipalities in the area.

The environmental compliance report noted “the South Fork Roanoke River was turbid upstream and downstream,” but added that the condition “was believed to be caused from overnight rain events within this area.”

Natalie Cox, a spokeswoman for Equitrans Midstream, said the 303-mile pipeline “has been safely flowing gas since June 14, 2024.”

Cox said all appropriate state and federal agencies were notified of the incident. It was also reported in a weekly environmental compliance report the company filed with the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC).  

That document appeared in FERC’s public docket on June 20. The DEQ investigation of the incident was closed the next day.

Cox said Tuesday all restoration activity related to the June 4 rupture had been completed.

Celeste Miller, a spokeswoman for FERC, said the commission was notified “shortly after the occurrence.” Miller referred safety questions to the Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration, which is part of the U.S. Department of Transportation.

FERC approved the pipeline to begin service on June 11, a day after Equitrans Midstream declared it “mechanically complete.” The commission published a summary of a phone call between officials at FERC and PHMSA, and FERC noted that PHMSA had no objections to granting the approval.

Since construction started on the pipeline in 2018, residents have complained about its impact on their groundwater and drinking water and the erosion due to the steepness of the slopes.

Equitrans Midstream has said it complied with every requirement to complete restoration.

**Editor’s Note: This story was updated to clarify that the failure was in an 8-inch hose, not the pipeline itself.

‘That’s All They Care About, Putting This Pipe In The Ground’

After a decade of planning and construction, residents of Bent Mountain, Virginia, said they still worry the Mountain Valley Pipeline could affect their safety, their water quality and their property values.

It isn’t easy to get a clear view of where the Mountain Valley Pipeline burst during a water pressure test in early May.

So Robin Austin, who lives nearby, guides a reporter through the woods where the Blue Ridge Parkway connects to U.S. highway 221.

At the edge of the fence, a giant trench comes into view. It is filled with workers and heavy construction equipment. They’re replacing the damaged section of pipe that burst on May 1.

“This is a site where we’ve had water problems in the past,” she said. “Just the topography of the land and the way this watershed is. It runs off. It’s a wetland right against 221. And it enters the culverts and goes to the streams.”

The day the pipe broke, Austin called her neighbor, Kathy Chandler, and told her brown water was pouring across her property. Chandler reported it to the Virginia Department of Environmental Quality.

That’s how the public first knew that the pipeline test had failed. The federal agencies that regulate pipelines said little about the incident. But on June 11, they approved the pipeline to begin carrying large volumes of gas, at high pressure, from West Virginia to Virginia.

“Once the gas is in the line, we don’t have any control now,” Austin said, “but at least we have action we can take.” 

Chandler, Austin and other Bent Mountain residents have been fighting the project for a decade. 

Last month at the Bent Mountain Center, a converted school building, they said they still worry the pipeline could affect their safety, their water quality and their property values.

“I don’t want to be known as the girl with the muddy creek,” Chandler said. “That is an issue for us up here. Horrible, repeat events to our water, our surface waters. But the real life-threatening event for our neighborhood is that a pipe split open under pressure.”

Equitrans Midstream, the builder of the Mountain Valley Pipeline, has repeatedly insisted that the failed pressure test poses no safety risks. On May 10, Todd Normane, an Equitrans senior vice president and general counsel for the pipeline, wrote to the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission that the incident demonstrated that the testing worked. He criticized pipeline opponents for asking the commission to delay or deny its approval to begin service.

John Coles Terry III and his wife, Red Terry, in Bent Mountain, Virginia, on Friday, May 10, 2024.

Photo by Curtis Tate/West Virginia Public Broadcasting

Uphill Battle

Bent Mountain sits on a plateau just inside Roanoke County. It is about 17 miles, and 30 minutes down a twisting road to Roanoke, the most populated city in southwest Virginia.

Coles Terry, who lives in Bent Mountain with his wife, Theresa, or “Red,” said he’s not convinced local emergency response agencies have the materials or a plan for a fire should the pipeline fail again. Bent Mountain residents are miles away from a municipal water connection. Most rely on wells and springs.

“If it does catch fire,” Coles Terry said, “the county has got $50,000 worth of foam, somewhere.”  

“They won’t tell us where,” Red Terry said.

“They won’t tell us where,” Coles Terry said. “They won’t tell us how they plan to get it up here. They won’t tell us how they plan to get it where the fire is raging.”

Coles Terry, his brother Frank and sister Liz were part of a court-ordered settlement of more than $500,000 for the pipeline easement on their property. A U.S. district judge cut the award in half, but the Fourth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals last month ruled the Terrys should receive the higher amount

U.S Sen. Joe Manchin

Manchin’s Move

The Terrys were among hundreds of residents the pipeline builder sued to gain access to their land via eminent domain. Many tried to challenge the decision by FERC to grant the pipeline the authority to use eminent domain, but were ultimately not successful.

Pipeline opponents had been successful in challenging the project’s permits, bringing construction to a halt for prolonged periods.

That all changed a year ago, when Congress enacted the Fiscal Responsibility Act, a spending deal that required the completion of the pipeline.

One of the pipeline’s chief supporters, West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin, a Democrat turned Independent, attached the provision to the bill.

“This is a great day for American energy security and an even greater day for the state of West Virginia,” Manchin said at the end of July last year after construction resumed on the pipeline.

According to Chandler, Austin and Terry, it resumed at a pace they had not seen before.

“If this is a matter of national security, then it should be the safest pipeline in the country,” Chandler said. “It should absolutely be the tip-top safest. And with this recent event, that cannot be assured.”

Kathy Chandler, a resident of Bent Mountain, Virginia, looks at the site of a failed pressure test on the Mountain Valley Pipeline near her property.

Photo by Curtis Tate/West Virginia Public Broadcasting

‘We’re just the landowners’

Austin and Chandler showed some other places in the area where the pipeline crosses farms and wetlands and also where it begins to ascend steep slopes.

Chandler says the topography and geology of Bent Mountain makes it a risky place to build a pipeline.

“Bent Mountain plateau, our neighborhood, has every geohazard known to pipeline construction,” Chandler said. We have the steepest slopes, we have rocky soil, we have highly erodible soils, we have water crossings, we have shallow water, we have a seismically active zone.

Coles Terry says the pipeline’s builder and its regulators haven’t listened to residents’ concerns. 

“We’re just the landowners,” he said. “Everything we said would happen has happened. Everything we told them was bad and wrong has come true. We’ve had people way smarter than me come in and tell them the same thing. But the pipeline, the MVP, the companies, they have one job, one job, that’s to put the pipe in the ground. That’s all they care about, putting this pipe in the ground.”

They wrote letters, they made phone calls, they attended public meetings. They visited lawmakers in Richmond and Washington. In Red Terry’s case, she camped out in a tree in 2018 until a judge threatened to fine her $1,000 a day.

The residents have taken time away from their families to campaign against the pipeline and have lost loved ones along the way. They say it has also affected their health.

“My blood pressure will never be normal again,” Coles Terry said.

In some places, the break in the landscape is so subtle, you wouldn’t even know a major piece of fossil fuel infrastructure was just below the surface. The Mountain Valley Pipeline might not be visible, but it is on the minds of the people of Bent Mountain.

Heart Medications Detected In W.Va. Waterways, Fish Populations

New research reveals that heart medications are now showing up in local waterways and fish.

Heart diseases are the most prevalent medical conditions in the country, and drugs like statins and beta blockers are widely prescribed to help treat them. But new research reveals that those drugs are now showing up in local waterways and fish. Reporter Chris Schulz spoke with Prof. Kyle Hartman and doctoral student Joseph Kingsbury about their research into this issue.

This interview was edited for length and clarity.

Schulz: When we’re talking about heart medications, what exactly is it that we’re talking about? I know personally, I took my statin blockers this morning. But for those that are unaware, what are we talking about when we’re talking about heart medications?

Kingsbury: In terms of the scope of the study, that kind of falls under statins and beta blockers. There are additional heart medicines out there obviously, there are probably several dozen at minimum in circulation right now. But we primarily focused on the statins and the beta blockers.

Schulz: What led you all to first of all even be looking for these medications in our waterways?

Hartman: For a long time, I’ve been kind of interested in this. Some of these drugs, I’ll let Joe talk about the beta blockers, but the statin drugs, for us, we’re trying to control cholesterol and fat and things like that in our bodies. You hit 40 years old, and they prescribe you these things, whether you need it or not, so they’re very prevalent out there. 

But for fish in particular, it’s important for them to be able to store lipids in order to get through lean times, to make it through the winter. In terms of reproduction, lipids are what fuels that egg in a fish in order to be able to hatch and survive and make the next generation. For them, lipids are really important to have in their bodies and so anything that would reduce lipids in their eggs, that reduces an already low chance of survival for that egg, that it will even hatch. They don’t have enough energy reserves to make it until it can start feeding on its own, it uses up the yolk sac, just like a chicken egg. That’s its fuel. So anything that would reduce that for them might be affecting reproduction of fish. But it’s probably not lethal, not something that we can observe because it’s probably just eroding population. So I was interested from the perspective of “This could be sort of a silent, negative thing happening to our fish populations,” where we might see those that are exposed to these lipid drugs, their populations declining. And we don’t know why because we can’t see the smoking gun that in this case, would potentially be the statin drugs.

Schulz: Joe, what about for you? What led you to this line of research?

Kingsbury: I started my master’s in 2019 and I didn’t really have a project set. I have a water quality background from previous work, as well as an interest in overall fish physiology and toxicology and stuff like that because I’ve worked with more traditional contaminants like acid mine drainage, whatnot. I tried to pitch a project involving water quality impacts to fish health. I approached Kyle, and Kyle’s like “We should go talk to the USGS Co Op unit leader” who had this idea since 2017-2018. She turned me on to [it] and so I did a bunch of digging, and I realized “Oh, there actually might be something here.” We haven’t really tapped into this type of research super heavily yet. And this might be a fun and actually quite important project for us considering the widespread use of pharmaceuticals and pretty much everyday life across the globe.

Schulz: These are very prevalent medications, statin and beta blockers. Heart disease is the number one illness that people live with in the country if I’m not mistaken. Can you explain to me where you all theorize this is coming from? Is it pass through in humans into wastewater? Or is it improper disposal of excess medication? 

Hartman: It’s purely going through wastewater. Joe could give you more details about the processes there because actually, part of his study was collecting water samples, and some of that was done at the sewage treatment plants, both in-stream and also in the plant.

Kingsbury: We’ve seen a lot of different work regarding wastewater treatment facilities, and that, for the most part, when we ingest these types of pharmaceuticals, our bodies are not perfect, they’re never going to get to ingest and process 100 percent of the drug. Oftentimes, we’ll process a given proportion, it varies from pharmaceutical to pharmaceutical, every drug is a little different. But basically, we will end up excreting, usually through our urine or feces, some quantity of this pharmaceutical. And because they are very resistant to actual degradation, because they’re meant to be shelf stable, they’re meant to be processed in a very specific way within our bodies, they hit our wastewater facilities, which actually don’t recreate those same processes. And so they don’t always break down and basically remove these pharmaceuticals as waste. What ends up happening is we treat all this water and stuff and we go, “Okay, it’s clean, it’s safe to return back to our surface waters,” and we just discharge it, but we never actually specifically treat it for the pharmaceuticals per se. 

Recently, we’ve seen it’s detected globally at this point. Usually, the sewage treatment facilities are a primary source of the pharmaceuticals themselves into our surface waters. We do occasionally get it from landfills, which is just the conglomeration of runoff from landfills. Other drugs can come from agriculture, if we’re using, say, antibiotics or other pharmaceuticals on livestock, we can also get it from there. But for the most part, it’s coming out of our sewage treatment facilities, which just aren’t equipped to really treat for these pharmaceuticals and these more complex compounds.

Schulz: What did you see in the field, when you detected these medications, in the fish that you studied? 

Hartman: I would say, sort of a point of clarification, is part of the reason why we’re so concerned about how pharmaceuticals might affect wildlife is because usually if they do a study at all, it’s with some obscure species, like fat head minnows or something. And their end point is death. Well, the concentrations that they’re going to find in a river, they’re not going to kill the fish outright, but they might reduce the lipids so that they don’t have enough lipids to make it through the winter. Whereas previously, if they weren’t exposed to them, they would be fine. 

Maybe now we’re seeing a higher mortality rate. What we see when we’re out sampling fishes, we see the ones that are surviving, not the ones that passed away. So it’s difficult to detect it, and it’s certainly not anything that a company is required to do. But we know these drugs are necessary, it’s more of, let’s find out what impact they are having. We tested four different medications: two statins and two beta blockers, and some of them are less influential on the fish. So it might be more of a “Let’s steer doctors towards prescribing this drug as opposed to that drug.”

Schulz: Oftentimes, if there’s a big die off, that’s what concerns people. So what’s the actual impact that you saw in your study in the field? What was the indicator to you that this was actually an issue?

Kingsbury: We sampled a bunch of different species in the field. And we grouped them by genus, because in terms of an individual genus they’re very similar to one another, like species to species pretty much. For the data analysis, we had to do that to make it really run. But what we saw was we used something called relative condition, or relative weight, I should say, to see how overall condition of a fish changed based upon concentration of the drugs. We’re able to measure drug concentrations upstream of a given wastewater facility and downstream. Then using a little bit of chemistry, we can estimate the concentration near the discharge point. From there, we were able to capture the fish and assess relative weight as an index of health. Basically how thick is that fish, and the bigger the fish, the better, compared to its average. 

What we saw was that different genuses responded differently to different drugs. We kind of expected because you know, species do alter, and they have slightly different pathways and like different body shapes and different characteristics. We definitely saw a mixture of negative and positive, we saw some fish responded positively to exposure, whereas other fish responded negatively as exposure increased. And when I say exposure, I’m talking trace amounts, we’re talking nanograms per liter, which is incredibly small. To even see that that effect size, with some confidence, was surprising to us, at least. I was kind of hoping “Well, maybe we won’t see anything, maybe we will.” But when we saw the model produce those results, when we saw specific genus have actual decreases, over even minute increases of exposure, that was a little bit concerning. 

That kind of played into the fact that while these pharmaceuticals are not going to probably kill those fish outright, they’re going to add additional stress and reduce their survival chances moving forward as they’re consistently exposed. And the difference between what we did versus a traditional study is, I wasn’t looking for, “I need to give them this much drug to kill them,” versus “I wanted to see how their condition changed over relative to exposure,” which is a little different than traditional toxicology, which often relies on like controlled endpoints, where it’s we looked at fish to have an exposed presumably for their entire lifetime because of the system they came from, which was the Tygart Valley, and the West Fork Rivers here in West Virginia.

Schulz: So what’s the next step for your study?

Kingsbury: Traditionally, this study is done in more urbanized environments, like say Pittsburgh, for example versus we typically ignore rural areas because of low population densities. The next step, really, would be to basically create more accurate estimates of the pharmaceuticals entering the waterways over time, and that is hard to do. But it’s not impossible. Part of that involves more rigorous water quality testing, to get a better feel for how that fluctuates over time, because there’s going to be seasonality to it, because temperature and other types of parameters will alter the concentration within the water column.

Hartman: Just seasonally in terms of discharge in the river, the old “Dilution is the solution to pollution” genre there. So when we’ve got higher flows, we still probably got the same amount of drugs going in. It’s just more dilute.

Kinsbury: That was part of my study, as well as looking at how the demographics of West Virginia could potentially contribute to pharmaceuticals, based upon the National Health Institute’s, this age group and this demographic are prescribed at this rate. We can take that and apply that to local demographics as well, instead of trying using prescription sales, which is very, very hard to do because of the way prescription sales work. But instead of actually looking at demographics, and trying to estimate our loadings going into our treatment facilities to help us prioritize “Well, this is what we should probably be looking at based upon this demographic” like this demographic is older, and more likely to prescribe these drugs versus, say, a younger demographic or more transient demographic, that’s not going to experience that same type of pharmaceutical level. 

That’s kind of the next big step is, you know, getting a better feel for what areas need to be prioritized for further research. To even see it in rural areas tells us that this is not just a city based problem, this is an everywhere problem, most likely, other than places that have no human influence whatsoever, which are pretty rare far between at this point. So that’s probably our next step would be getting better at estimating our pharmaceutical loadings within a given system based upon surrounding demographics and who is contributing to those treatment facilities. And in conjunction, every facility is a little different. Some facilities are very basic, others are very complex that will have third and fourth stage treatments like UV treatment, activated sludge, aeration, stuff like that, and the more treatments they have, the better it is. But being able to basically see that pattern and map that pattern relative to our demographic loadings is kind of the next big step. But that’s definitely more of a civil engineering type of thing. So that’s why this is very interdisciplinary, very collaborative, where we have to talk to chemists and engineers and kind of figure out well, where do we, where do we prioritize? Because we don’t have unlimited money, we have to pick and choose where to pick our battles.

Schulz: What is the desired outcome for this?

Hartman: I think ultimately, it’s like, we’re still trying to understand, where these drugs are, where they’re affecting things. Joe said some species responded, they were in higher condition, when they were exposed to higher concentrations, others were lower. We’re still trying to figure that out. We probably should give a shout out to Dr. Sanchez, who Joe worked with up at Pittsburgh on the methods to actually be able to detect this in water and fish. I want to make sure we at least give him some props there since we worked together to achieve that. 

But I think until we know a little bit more about what’s involved in and then breaking it down, like, can we actually show that we have reduced recruitment, reduced reproduction in the laboratory, where we have more controlled conditions? I don’t think we’re looking to change anything until we have more information. But ultimately, if we have information that shows these drugs are way worse for the fish in the environment, then there are plenty of alternative medications that maybe aren’t.

Kinsbury: Our current long term goal is looking at more chronic toxicity, long term exposure regimes, just to get more information on what’s really going on, because again, we just don’t have unlimited resources. This is part of the process of informed decision making, in terms of what drugs are you more concerned about? Oftentimes we talk about risk and risk mitigation, and just highlighting which drugs even require risk mitigation is part of our current problem of understanding what is actually happening. And unfortunately, all pharmaceuticals are pretty unique. 

They’re probably, I would argue, one of the most challenging contaminants of our time, because they’re all so unique in the way they’re designed to target biological pathways, both in us and in fish, because we share a lot of the same pathways. I think for us right now, we’re still in the information gathering stage to begin recommending changes to certain industries, whether it’s the pharmaceutical companies, wastewater management or even doctors in terms of what they prescribe. I still think we’re a ways out from that because we just don’t fully understand the full picture yet. Right now we’re still trying to untangle this huge ball of yarn that is pharmaceutical contamination. 

That’s also another area we’re still working on is how to more effectively and cost effectively detect these things within fish, because that’s, you know, it can be in the water. But if we don’t know what’s in the fish, it’s really tough for us to understand how these different exposure levels alter and like, what are those exposure levels realistically. So we’re still trying to figure out how to even look at the picture right now. We can give recommendations on what needs to be changed.

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