Us & Them: Caught Between Two Worlds

Our nation’s capital can make and break careers. In a very short period, Cassidy Hutchinson went from being a complete political outsider to traveling on Air Force One with the President of the United States. She tells Us & Them host Trey Kay about life on either side of the political divide.

American politics is now a very ‘us and them’ world. Insiders know the privilege of power, but loyalties can shift and elections can make doors slam shut. 

Cassidy Hutchinson, who worked in the Trump administration, knows both sides. She was a dedicated White House staffer who’s best known for her stunning testimony to the January 6 committee. 

Us & Them host Trey Kay spoke with Hutchinson about her memoir Enough, which offers an intimate portrayal of life on the inside and a failed effort to stay in power. Hutchinson faced decisions some of her former superiors refused, including those who defied subpoenas to testify before a Congressional committee. 

This episode provides a front row seat to the beginnings of a legal saga that may hold an influence over this year’s elections. 

This episode of Us & Them is presented with support from the West Virginia Humanities Council and the CRC Foundation.

Subscribe to Us & Them on Apple Podcasts, NPR One, RadioPublic, Spotify, Stitcher and beyond.


Cassidy Hutchinson, former aide to Trump White House chief of staff Mark Meadows, was sworn in before testifying to the House select committee investigating the January 6 attacks on the US Capitol on June 28, 2022.

Credit: Jacquelyn Martin/AP Photo
Cassidy Hutchinson photographed outside of the White House at a time when she was a student at Christopher Newport University and participating in the White House Internship Program.

Courtesy of the White House
Cassidy Hutchinson and Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany stand behind as former President Donald Trump speaks to the press aboard Air Force One after a campaign event in Wisconsin.

“So within not even three years, I went from being a complete outsider to traveling on Air Force One with the President, almost everywhere he went. I’m at the last rally. It was in Wisconsin. I just sort of took a moment to myself and I just started walking around weaving in and out of all the supporters. I wanted to take that moment in. I’m looking around at all of these people … and I caught myself thinking, ‘These people are being duped. These people are being lied to,’ and they’re looking at him with so much hope and faith in their eyes. And I caught myself thinking that and I just sort of like snapped myself out of it. I felt like I was completely caught between two worlds.” — Cassidy Hutchinson

Credit: Tom Brenner/Reuters
Watch Cassidy Hutchinson’s testimony to the House select committee investigating the January 6 attacks on the US Capitol.

Learn more about Cassidy Hutchinson’s book Enough.

West Virginia ‘Proud Boy’ Sentenced For Jan. 6 Attack On U.S. Capitol

Jeffrey Finley, 28, of Martinsburg, was sentenced to 75 days in prison and $500 in restitution, with 12 months of supervised release.

A West Virginia man has been sentenced to prison for his role in the Jan. 6, 2021 attack on the U.S. Capitol by supporters of former President Donald Trump. 

Jeffrey Finley, 28, of Martinsburg, was sentenced to 75 days in prison and $500 in restitution, with 12 months of supervised release.

Judge Tanya S. Chutkan of the U.S. District Court in the District of Columbia issued the sentence for Finley, who was instructed to surrender voluntarily.

The U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia, who is handling the Jan. 6 cases, had asked for a 90-day sentence for Finley.

At the time of the Capitol attack, Finely was president of the West Virginia chapter of the Proud Boys, a far-right group.

According to the U.S. Justice Department, Finley was part of a group of Proud Boys who rushed the Capitol, stepping over barricades and past U.S. Capitol police.

He pleaded guilty in April 2022.

The U.S. Attorney’s Office has prosecuted hundreds of Jan. 6 defendants, including others in West Virginia.

Please Pass The Politics

In the run-up to the 2022 Midterm Elections, the Us & Them dinner party crew finally met face to face! They disagree on many things, including the 2020 Election and January 6. It’s not a surprise that there was plenty of conversation about the Supreme Court’s ruling over abortion access. After 2 years of COVID-19 social distance, the crew gathered like a family around one table, breaking bread, talking politics and trying to understand their differences.

It’s time for our Us & Them dinner party crew to share a meal in person!

This remarkable group of people has been meeting for two years, virtually, to talk across their social and political divides. There’s a lot they disagree on and there are moments of awkward concern at the table as they navigate that space.

In this new episode, we’re together to talk and listen and try to understand a little more about each other. Our guests agree that sharing food and views enhances a sense of camaraderie and helps us really see each other. This Us & Them dinner party episode offers respectful talk across the table.

This episode of Us & Them is presented with support from the West Virginia Humanities Council, The Greater Kanawha Valley Foundation, the CRC Foundation and the Daywood Foundation.

Subscribe to Us & Them on Apple Podcasts, NPR One, RadioPublic, Spotify, Stitcher and beyond.

Trey Kay with the Us & Them Dinner Party Crew: Felicia Bush, Anne Cavalier, Karen Cross and Jay Gould.
Us & Them host Trey Kay presents the serving table to his Dinner Party guests.
Sharon Smith Banks joins the Us & Them Dinner Party virtually.
The Us & Them Dinner Party Crew share their thoughts about abortion.

Grant County Man Arrested In Connection To Jan. 6 Capitol Breach

An Eastern Panhandle man connected to the Jan. 6 attack at the U.S. Capitol was arrested by the FBI last Friday in Martinsburg.

An Eastern Panhandle man connected to the Jan. 6 attack at the U.S. Capitol was arrested by the FBI last Friday in Martinsburg.

Documents from the United States District Court for the District of Columbia show a complaint was filed against John Thomas Gordon of Grant County along with an arrest warrant.

The charges against him include civil disorder, destruction of government property, entering and remaining in a restricted building, disorderly and disruptive conduct in a restricted building, disorderly conduct in a capitol building, and an act of physical violence in the Capitol grounds.

The case’s statement of facts said Gordon repeatedly threw an object at the Capitol’s North Door in an attempt to break in, citing video evidence from YouTube and an interview with someone close to him.

The case is currently being prosecuted by the district court and is being investigated by the FBI’s Pittsburgh Field Office.

This is the seventh arrest made in West Virginia attached to the U.S. Capitol breach and the third made in Martinsburg, according to an online database of the cases from the United States Attorney’s Office.

Former W.Va. Lawmaker Gets 3 Months In Jan. 6 Riot

A former West Virginia lawmaker who livestreamed himself on Facebook storming the U.S. Capitol and cheering on what he described as a “revolution” was sentenced Wednesday to three months in prison.

A former West Virginia lawmaker who livestreamed himself on Facebook storming the U.S. Capitol and cheering on what he described as a “revolution” was sentenced Wednesday to three months in prison.

Derrick Evans, 37, who pleaded guilty to a felony civil disorder charge, told the judge that he regrets his actions every day and is a “good person who unfortunately was caught up in a moment.”

“I will forever bear the reminder that I made a crucial mistake. I’ve let down myself, I’ve let down my community and most importantly I’ve let down my family,” Evans told the judge.

The Republican from Prichard, West Virginia, was sworn in as a member of the state’s House of Delegates just weeks before the Jan. 6, 2021, riot that halted the certification of President Joe Biden’s victory and left more than 100 police officers injured. Evans was arrested two days after the riot and promptly resigned a month before the start of the legislative session, so he never served a day in the legislature.

Prosecutors had sought the three months behind bars, describing Evans as a leader in the riot who escalated the chaos at the Capitol by enthusiastically egging on the rioters around him.

U.S. District Judge Royce Lamberth told Evans said time behind bars was necessary to reflect the seriousness of Evans’ actions and help prevent something like the riot from ever happening again.

“I can’t just give you probation in a case like this. It doesn’t reflect the feelings of the community. It doesn’t reflect the feelings of the country about what happened that day,” Lamberth said.

“I don’t want another riot the next election. I don’t want this to happen again, so I’m going to do what I can,” the judge added.

In the days leading up to the riot, Evans told his 30,000 Facebook followers to “Fight For Trump” in the nation’s capital, according to court documents. On the day of the riot, he skipped then- President Donald Trump’s speech and went straight to the Capitol, where he used his cellphone to record the melee for more than an hour, prosecutors said.

In a since-deleted cell phone video that was widely shared online, Evans gleefully narrated the riot for his Facebook followers, cheered on the crowd and fist bumped rioters as he and the rest of the mob swarmed the Capitol and jammed inside.

“Guys, oh my gosh, I can’t even explain what is happening right now, how amazing this is to see in person. I am in awe. The revolution has started. The revolution has started!” he said, according to court documents.

After pushing inside the Capitol, he shouted: “We’re in! Derrick Evans is in the Capitol!”

About 15 minutes after leaving the building, he texted a friend to ask if he should delete the video “so there’s no evidence” of his actions, court records show.

“Even while he was filming the livestream he knew what was happening around him was not lawful,” Assistant U.S. Attorney Kathryn Fifield told the judge, noting that at one point Evans speculated that Trump would “pardon anybody who gets arrested” for going in the Capitol.

Evans’ attorney urged the judge for probation, noting that the former lawmaker didn’t engage in any violence or destruction and was heard on the video urging others not to do so. Attorney Paul Taylor argued in court documents the video suggests “a certain naivete” and “lack of experience, wisdom or judgement rather than primarily criminal intent.”

Evans, a former teacher and football coach, is among more than 300 people who have pleaded guilty in connection to the riot. Defendants have admitted to crimes ranging from misdemeanors to felony seditious conspiracy.

Sentences have ranged from probation for those who admitted to petty offenses to more than five years in prison for a man who attacked police officers working to hold back the angry mob.

Former W.Va. Delegate Faces Jan. 6th U.S. Capitol Riot Sentencing

Derrick Evans had just been sworn in as a delegate from Wayne County when he traveled to Washington, D.C, on January 6th, riding a “Stop the Steal” bus that left from Burlington, Ohio, just across the Ohio River from Huntington.

A former West Virginia House of Delegates member faces sentencing on Wednesday for illegally entering the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021.

Derrick Evans had just been sworn in as a delegate from Wayne County when he traveled to Washington, D.C, on January 6th, riding a “Stop the Steal” bus that left from Burlington, Ohio, just across the Ohio River from Huntington.

According to court documents, “On Jan. 6, Evans made his way to the east side of the Capitol, where he observed the crowd greatly grow in size. At about 1:45 p.m., he saw and video-recorded rioters overwhelming law enforcement and breaching the barriers blocking the East Plaza. He followed the crowd toward the Capitol building, going to the East Rotunda doors.”

Prosecutors say the helmet-wearing Evans stormed the Capitol and promoted the riot by streaming social media video of the activity.

From court documents: “In a video that Evans live-streamed to his public Facebook account and later deleted, he was approximately 20 feet away from the Rotunda Doors before they were breached. He narrated what he saw and heard, making remarks such as ‘Here we go! Here we go! Open the doors,’ and ‘The door’s cracked We’re goin’ in!’ Once he made it through the doors, Evans exclaimed, ‘We’re in! Derrick Evans is in the Capitol!’ Evans entered the Capitol at approximately 2:40 p.m. He walked through the Rotunda and Statuary Hall and left the building approximately 10 minutes later.”

Evans’ attorney, Paul Taylor, told prosecutors his client’s video recording suggests a certain naivete and a lack of experience, wisdom or judgment

rather than primarily criminal intent. Prosecutors said his decision to enter the capitol was deliberate and showed flagrant disrespect for the law.

Evans resigned from the House of Delegates under pressure and pleaded guilty to a felony civil disorder charge. His sentencing is set for 2:30 Wednesday in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia. Evans will participate remotely from West Virginia.

Federal prosecutors are seeking three months jail time, three years supervised release and $2,000 in restitution.

Evans’ attorney requests no jail time, restitution and probation.

His submission to the judge regarding his sentencing offers numerous leniency pleas from family and friends.

Evans said he hired a media agent to schedule all the local, state and national interview requests. He plans to give those interviews after the sentencing.

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