Coal Miners’ Health Care Hit Hard In Job Cuts To CDC

Sam Petsonk grew up around southern West Virginia’s mining communities, visiting patients with his father, one of the country’s first doctors to specialize in Black Lung Disease.

This story, written by Yuki Noguchi, was originally published on April 9, 2025 at npr.org. To listen to the audio and see the original story, click here.

Sam Petsonk grew up around southern West Virginia’s mining communities, visiting patients with his father, one of the country’s first doctors to specialize in Black Lung Disease.

“When I was a child, I’d look up and I’d see coal miners — seemingly larger than life, doubled over coughing, scarcely able to walk, work or breathe,” Petsonk says, “I’ve seen it my whole life. I remember it as a kid, and still see it today.”

Today, Petsonk’s whole law practice in Oak Hill, W.Va., exclusively represents coal miners. He often takes cases of people sickened on the job, and he relies on the records gathered by the respiratory health unit of the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, a division of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that runs the Coal Workers’ Health Surveillance Program. It offers, essentially, a very unique kind of guaranteed workplace healthcare: By law, it gives every miner in the country – roughly 50,000 – access to care for free.

The 25 people working in that unit were put on immediate administrative leave on April 1; they are out of their jobs, along with about 10,000 other federal health workers later this spring.

The lab sent mobile x-ray units to mines to screen miners regularly. It authorized job transfers for miners showing signs of disease. And the unit also trained and certified doctors to read specialized lung scans. Petsonk says that health service has become an essential part of mining life. But President Trump’s sweeping cutbacks at the nation’s health agencies last week included this small team running a program coal miners are entitled to by law.

“It’s a bedrock institution for the medical profession that has been obliterated,” Petsonk says. “It’s just unacceptable.”

The program’s roots date back to a lethal Farmington, W.Va. mining explosion that killed 78 workers in 1968. The disaster led to passage of the Federal Coal Mine and Safety Act, which in turn added the miners’ surveillance program under the respiratory health division at NIOSH.

Lawsuit filed

Late Monday, Petsonk filed a class-action lawsuit against Robert F. Kennedy Jr and the agency he now runs, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, to reinstate the respiratory health unit within CDC’s National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health that ran the program epidemiologist Scott Laney calls “the nation’s doctor for coal miners.”

Laney headed research at the coal workers’ surveillance program in Morgantown W.V., until he was placed on administrative leave April 1. Laney says with no staff, the coal worker health surveillance program and its database of x-rays, medical records, and mobile screening vans are abandoned.

He notes that program singlehandedly reduced Black Lung Disease from affecting nearly 40% of longtime coal workers to as low as 2%, around 2000. But in recent years, lung disease for miners has become a major concern again, Laney says, because coal increasingly comes from mines embedded in sandstone, and which generates dust that’s 20 times more damaging to lungs than coal. That means miners are getting sicker, younger — and without the monitoring of coal miners, he says, people will die — and no one will be keeping score.

“It’s going to have impacts on my neighbors; it’s going to be killing young men,” Laney says. “And that story will go untold.”

Last week, Laney and others working in the country’s health agencies were thrown into chaos, amid another round of federal cuts. He and other managers were left trying to find out who among their colleagues remained employed. Laney says with nearly everyone eliminated from his office, it became clear the coal miners’ program could not continue at all.

Trusted by miners

But news of the program’s recent fate has not yet reached the coal miners affected, says Dr. Drew Harris, a pulmonologist and director of the Black Lung Program at Stone Mountain Health, the only such free program in Virginia. He says the coal worker health program is trusted and universally relied upon in these communities.

“In Central Appalachia, it’s a big deal,” he says. “These are towns that basically were built around coal mining, and coal miners are like the heart and soul of this community and economic livelihood for generations.”

Harris says today’s mines are full of sand dust, and he sees patients who, by age 40, need double lung transplants. Black Lung Disease, he says, is not a thing of the past, and surveillance is still needed.

“If that goes away, then, you know, people won’t know that they have Black Lung at an earlier age and more people are going to end up with severe disease because they didn’t diagnose it earlier.”

Pentagon Website Removes, Then Restores, Page Honoring Black Medal Of Honor Recipient

Army Maj. Gen. Charles C. Rogers, and a native West Virginian, is the highest-ranking Black servicemember to receive the Medal of Honor. But a Department of Defense profile of Rogers, who died in 1990, was taken down on Friday. It comes as the Trump administration has pushed to remove references to diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) across the federal government. As of Monday afternoon, the page had returned to the website.

This story was originally published on NPR and written by Bill Chappell.

Army Maj. Gen. Charles C. Rogers is the highest-ranking Black servicemember to receive the Medal of Honor. His actions during the Vietnam War, when he was wounded and came under repeated attack by the North Vietnamese Army, were later hailed by then-President Richard Nixon.

But a Department of Defense profile of Rogers, who died in 1990, was taken down on Friday. It comes as the Trump administration has pushed to remove references to diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) across the federal government. The removal prompted outrage over what many saw as a disrespectful erasing of history. As of Monday afternoon, the page had returned to the website.

The Defense Department “has restored the Medal of Honor story about Army Maj. Gen. Charles Calvin Rogers,” a spokesperson told NPR in an email, adding, “The story was removed during auto removal process.”

The agency did not provide details about the removal process, or why the page’s URL was briefly altered to add the letters “dei.”

The page is part of a series honoring Medal of Honor recipients

The page at the center of the controversy is the Nov. 1, 2021, installment of the long-running Medal of Honor Monday series by the DOD’s news service. It states that Rogers, the son of a West Virginia coal miner who attended a segregated high school and whose Army career extended to the 1980s, “worked for sex and race equality while in the service.”

The page’s main focus is the courage and leadership Rogers showed as a lieutenant colonel when his artillery base came under intense attack near the Cambodian border. But it seems to have gotten caught up in the Trump administration’s drive to rid the government of DEI.

Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth said in a January memo that DEI policies “are incompatible with the values” of the DOD, which he said will strive to provide equal opportunities but would not “guarantee or strive for equal outcomes.”

Last week, Arlington National Cemetery’s website was found to have removed histories that highlighted Black, Hispanic and/or female veterans from its website.

After the DOD profile on Rogers was taken down, its URL returned a “404 – Page Not Found” message — and as noted by social media users like Brandon Friedman, an Army veteran and former Obama administration official, the page’s URL in the Medal of Honor Monday series was modified to add “dei” to part of its URL: “deimedal-of-honor-monday-army-maj-gen-charles-calvin-rogers.” Attempts to load the original page redirected to that “dei” link instead, with the 404 message.

The situation changed Monday morning: the page was restored, then seemingly taken down and restored again. Along the way, the “dei” URL was removed; it now redirects to the original page. The “dei” error page can be seen on a version preserved by the Internet Archive.

Rogers was cited for “dauntless courage and heroism” in Vietnam

It’s normal for a Medal of Honor citation, the military’s highest honor, to note “conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty.” In Rogers’ case, it describes his actions to defeat a larger force that mounted a prolonged assault.

Hours before dawn on Nov. 1, 1968, a heavy bombardment of mortars, rockets and rocket-propelled grenades hit the 1st Battalion forward fire support base positioned near a North Vietnamese supply route in South Vietnam,the citation states.

Rogers braved North Vietnamese Army fire to direct his men’s howitzers to target the enemy — and despite being knocked off his feet and wounded by an exploding round, he led a counterattack to repel attackers who breached the defensive perimeter, according to his medal citation. Rogers was wounded again, but as more attacks followed, he reinforced defensive positions. He was later seriously wounded after joining a howitzer crew whose members had been hit by mortar fire.

“Lt. Col. Rogers’ dauntless courage and heroism inspired the defenders of the fire support base to the heights of valor to defeat a determined and numerically superior enemy force,” the citation states.

Rogers received the Medal of Honor in 1970 and rose to the rank of major general; he retired from the Army in 1984.

“Ordained a Baptist minister, he spent his final years ministering to American soldiers in Germany,” according to the West Virginia Military Hall of Fame. Rogers’ remains are in Arlington National Cemetery, and a bridge near the Cotton Hill community in Fayette County, W.V., is named for him.

Jimmy Carter, Former U.S. President And Peace Activist, Dies At 100

Jimmy Carter, the 39th president of the United States, died Sunday at age 100. The Carter Center announced he died in his hometown of Plains, Ga.

This story was originally published by NPR.

Jimmy Carter, the 39th president of the United States, died Sunday at age 100. The Carter Center announced he died in his hometown of Plains, Ga.

Carter was president from 1977 to 1981, but he was perhaps more famous for the life he led after leaving office. Carter was one of the biggest advocates for peace, democracy and international human rights.

James “Jimmy” Earl Carter Jr. was born in Plains, Ga., on Oct. 1, 1924, and spent his childhood on a farm just outside that tiny southwest Georgia community. His father was a peanut farmer; his mother, “Miss Lillian,” was a nurse. He was the first president of the United States to be born in a hospital.

“Other than Jimmy Carter, no person from the Deep South since the American Civil War had been elected president,” said Steven Hochman, a longtime assistant to the former president who works for the Carter Center.

Jimmy who?

Growing up on the farm, Carter learned the value of hard work and determination. He qualified for the U.S. Naval Academy and became an engineer, working on submarines. But Carter resigned from the Navy in 1953 after his father died.

Back in Plains, he was elected to the Georgia Senate and became the first Georgia governor to speak out against racial discrimination.

A lifelong Democrat like most Southerners at the time, Carter was a political unknown when he began a national campaign in 1974 and was first referred to as “Jimmy Who?

But a grassroots effort changed that, Hochman said. “He would campaign on the street corners and go to radio stations. Nobody knew who he was except that he was running for president.”

Carter’s friends and family from Georgia, called the Peanut Brigade, traveled to New Hampshire, Iowa and all over the country talking to voters and campaigning for Carter, the dependable Southerner who wanted to be president.

During the campaign, Carter told audiences, “I’ll never tell a lie. I’ll never make a misleading statement. I’ll never betray the trust of those who have confidence in me, and I will never avoid a controversial issue.”

Carter was elected when the mood of the country was bitter and cynical in the wake of the Vietnam War and the Watergate scandal. The man from Georgia struck out on a different course on his inauguration day: Carter and his wife, Rosalynn Carter, stepped out of the bulletproof limousine and walked to the White House to demonstrate their connection with the American people.

“It was mainly an attempt to draw a distinction between what he saw as the people’s presidency and the more imperial presidency of Richard Nixon,” said historian Dan Carter (no relation to Jimmy Carter).

The Carter White House

Among Jimmy Carter’s accomplishments were the Camp David Accords, which brought together the prime minister of Israel and the president of Egypt in 1978. They signed peace agreements on the White House lawn, and Carter spoke about the dedication and determination of the leaders who had been enemies for so many years.

The accords led to a peace treaty, but the relationship between the two Mideast countries remained tenuous. While in office, Carter also worked on the SALT II nuclear weapons agreement and signed the Panama Canal treaties, giving control of the canal to Panama.

But Carter’s most difficult challenge was the Iran hostage crisis. Militants stormed the U.S. Embassy in Iran in 1979 and took dozens of Americans hostage. People were glued to reports on the crisis for more than a year, as Carter continued to negotiate for the release of the hostages. In 1980, a failed rescue attempt led to the deaths of eight American servicemen.

The administration also battled domestic problems, including an energy crisis and double-digit inflation. Carter held a series of meetings among his Cabinet members that resulted in a blunt television address in 1979 that came to be known as the “malaise” speech.

“It’s clear that the true problems of our nation are much deeper — deeper than gasoline lines or energy shortages, deeper even than inflation or recession. And I realize more than ever that as president, I need your help,” Carter pleaded.

Carter established a federal energy policy. He created the departments of Energy and Education. Still, he lost his bid for reelection by a landslide to Republican Ronald Reagan. And it wasn’t until moments after Reagan was sworn in as president on Jan. 20, 1981, that the 52 remaining hostages were released. Carter was allowed to welcome them home.

“I had received word officially for the first time that the aircraft carrying the 52 American hostages had cleared Iranian airspace on the first leg of the journey home and that every one of the 52 hostages was alive, was well and free,” Carter said as his voice broke.

Life after Washington

After leaving office, Carter became dedicated to promoting democracy, monitoring elections, building homes with Habitat for Humanity and eradicating disease in some of the world’s poorest countries. In 1982, the president and his wife opened the Carter Center in Atlanta.

In an interview with NPR in 2007, Carter talked about his experiences. “And for the last 25 years, my life could not have been more expansive and unpredictable and adventurous and gratifying,” he said.

In 2002, Carter won the Nobel Peace Prize, an honor some said he had earned a quarter century earlier when he negotiated the Camp David Accords. He ended his acceptance speech with a plea for peace.

“War may sometimes be a necessary evil, but no matter how necessary, it is always evil, never a good. We will not learn how to live together in peace by killing each other’s children,” Carter said.

The former president continued international peace missions throughout his lifetime, meeting with the leaders of countries that some U.S. presidents refused to acknowledge, including North Korea, Nicaragua and Cuba. In 2008, he met with the exiled leader of the militant Islamist group Hamas, despite harsh criticism from the U.S. government.

Historian Dan Carter said that the former president did prove to be a kind of honest broker for peace in many cases and that as Jimmy Carter grew older, he was less afraid of speaking out.

“And his meeting with Hamas, sure it was a provocative thing, but he felt it was the right thing to do,” said Dan Carter.

Jimmy Carter wrote more than 20 books, the most controversial titled Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid. He was a religious man, attending a Baptist church and teaching Bible school for many years. And he was a statesman — hardworking and plain talking.

The Carter Center’s Hochman said the 39th president was one of the most remarkable leaders in U.S. history. “I think he’ll be remembered as a champion of human rights and peace, both as president and as a former president,” Hochman said.

Carter entered hospice care in February 2023. The longest-lived former president had suffered from a series of health challenges in recent years, including surviving cancer, a broken hip and other recent hospitalizations for a fractured pelvis and a urinary tract infection.

He and Rosalynn celebrated their 77th wedding anniversary in 2023, a few months before she died at the age of 96.

Carter’s wishes were to be buried next to Rosalynn in his hometown of Plains, Georgia.

Where J.D. Vance Stands On Key Issues

In his first two years in the Senate, J.D. Vance, former President Donald Trump’s vice presidential pick, has established himself as a populist voice, at times clashing with Republican leadership. But on issues like abortion, immigration and election integrity, he’s closely aligned with Trump.

By Lexie Schapitl, Ben Giles, Destinee Adams
Read the original story from npr.org, published July 16, 2024 at 5:17 p.m. ET

For more updates from the 2024 Republican National Convention in Milwaukee, head to the NPR Network’s live updates page.


In his first two years in the Senate, J.D. Vance, former President Donald Trump’s vice presidential pick, has established himself as a populist voice, at times clashing with Republican leadership.

But on issues like abortion, immigration and election integrity, he’s closely aligned with Trump.

Here’s a look at where Vance stands on key issues:

Vance On Abortion

Vance describes himself as “pro-life,” but during his 2022 Senate campaign said he would like the issue to be left to the states.

I’d like it to be primarily a state issue,” Vance said in an interview with the Cincinnati Enquirer. “Ohio is going to want to have a different abortion policy from California, from New York, and I think that’s reasonable.”

In a 2022 debate with Democratic Senate candidate Tim Ryan, Vance said he would support “a number of different exceptions” but did not specify what exactly those exceptions would be.

Earlier this month, Vance said on NBC’s Meet the Press that he supports the availability of the abortion pill mifepristone.

The anti-abortion group Students for Life Action gave Vance an A- on their “Pro-Life Generation Report Card.”

Vance On Aid To Ukraine

Vance is one of the leading congressional Republican voices against U.S. aid to Ukraine. In an April op-ed, Vance wrote that he “remains opposed to virtually any proposal for the United States to continue funding this war.”

In the same op-ed, he encouraged Biden to pursue a negotiated peace with Putin.

In September 2023, Vance was among a group of Republican senators who opposed President Biden’s request for additional Ukraine aid.

“The American people deserve to know what their money has gone to,” the senators wrote. “How is the counteroffensive going? Are the Ukrainians any closer to victory than they were 6 months ago? What is our strategy, and what is the president’s exit plan? What does the administration define as victory in Ukraine?”

John Conway, a leader of the group Republicans for Ukraine, called Vance’s selection as Trump’s running mate “a huge disappointment to all Republicans who want to see Ukraine win, Russia lose, and Putin defeated.”

“Sen. Vance has a long history of confusing free, America-loving countries like Ukraine with tyrannical, corrupt, anti-American dictatorships like Russia,” Conway said in a statement to NPR. “The establishment of the Republican Party cannot continue to ignore the millions of Republicans who value American national security and understand that Ukraine is America’s friend and Putin is America’s enemy.”

Vance On Election Integrity

In Sen. J.D. Vance, former President Donald Trump has found a fellow election denier as his running mate — one who’s already sown seeds of doubt about the upcoming presidential election.

While running for the Senate in 2022, Vance said on the campaign trail that he thought the 2020 election was “stolen from Trump.” And earlier this year, Vance told ABC News he still questions the results of the 2020 election.

“Do I think there were problems in 2020? Yes, I do,” he told George Stephanopoulos in February.

Speaking on CNN in May, Vance downplayed the severity of the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol, saying he was “truly skeptical” that former Vice President Mike Pence’s life “was ever in danger,” despite chants from the crowd that Pence should be hanged.

“I think politics and politics people like to really exaggerate things from time to time,” Vance said.

Vance On Immigration

Vance has taken a hard line on immigration; he has often decried a “crisis” at the southern border and called for funding and constructing a border wall.

Speaking on Fox News in June, Vance said he believes the U.S. should conduct “large-scale deportations.”

Like Trump, Vance Wants To “Drain The Swamp”

In a 2021 podcast, Vance advised Trump to, “fire every single mid-level bureaucrat, every civil servant in the administrative state, replace them with our people,” and then potentially defy the Supreme Court if the president was sued.

Vance’s words sound like a “winning message,” Caroline Sunshine, deputy communications director for the Trump campaign, told NPR’s Morning Edition.

Trump Names Ohio Sen. J.D. Vance As Vice Presidential Running Mate

Republican Ohio Sen. J.D. Vance, who once called former Donald Trump “America’s Hitler” but is now one of his most vocal supporters in Congress, has been named Trump’s 2024 vice presidential pick.

By Stephen Fowler
Read the original story at npr.org
, published July 15, 2024 at 3:13 p.m. ET

Follow NPR’s live blog on the RNC for updates, analysis, fact checking and color from the convention.

Republican Ohio Sen. J.D. Vance, who once called former Donald Trump “America’s Hitler” but is now one of his most vocal supporters in Congress, has been named Trump’s 2024 vice presidential pick.

Ahead of the official nomination of the vice president in Milwaukee on the first day of the Republican convention, Trump posted on Truth Social that we was choosing Vance.

“As Vice President, J.D. will continue to fight for our Constitution, stand with our Troops, and will do everything he can to help me MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN,” Trump said in a two-part post.

Vance was born in Middletown, Ohio and served in the Marine Corps for four years after graduating high school in 2003. He graduated from The Ohio State University and Yale Law School before becoming an investment banker in California. He rose to national prominence in 2016 with his widely read — and widely criticized — memoir Hillbilly Elegy, which detailed his white working-class upbringing and the hollowed-out Rust Belt beset by addiction, poverty and despair.

In a 2016 interview with NPR, Vance said he was leaving the Bay Area to return to Ohio and do nonprofit work to target opioid addiction that was prevalent in his community growing up. “It’s obviously very personally important to me and it’s something my family has struggled with and dealt with,” he said on NPR’s All Things Considered. “And I felt, you know, frankly a little bit of responsibility now that I’ve been given this platform by the success of the book to go and try to do at least a little something to help out.”

Vance used his platform to start Our Ohio Renewal, a 501(c)(4) advocacy organization that focused on education, addiction and other “social ills” he mentioned in his memoir. The organization shuttered in less than two years with few accomplishments.

But in Trump’s world, past statements are almost never fatal if overwritten by present and future actions. Vance has morphed into a key Trump ally since taking office, and an omnipresent surrogate during his New York hush money trial.

In the aftermath of the assassination attempt against Trump at a Pennsylvania rally on Saturday, Vance blamed President Joe Biden for the attack. “Today is not just some isolated incident,” Vance wrote on Twitter. “The central premise of the Biden campaign is that President Donald Trump is an authoritarian fascist who must be stopped at all costs. That rhetoric led directly to President Trump’s attempted assassination.”

Trump has called him a “genuine convert” to his cause, and if the former president is the founder of the current GOP’s “America First” agenda that attacks Democrats and the federal government, then Vance has positioned himself as the heir apparent for picking up the Make America Great Again mantel for future generations.

Vance’s selection doesn’t explicitly widen Trump’s appeal to a broader range of voters but signals a doubling down on the former president’s dire vision of an America that is under attack and a country that is unlikley to exist if he does not win. In a recent Fox News interview, Vance said he was once critical of Trump, but his time in office proved him wrong. “It’s about the success of Trump’s presidency,” Vance said in a Fox News interview that was part of a series profiling potential VP picks. “But I also think his presidency revealed, at least to me, how corrupt the media was. It taught me a very important lesson about how the media lies.”

Sen. Joe Manchin On Why He Can’t Support Trump, But Isn’t Sold On Biden

West Virginia Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin talks to NPR’s Michel Martin about Joe Biden, Donald Trump and Nikki Haley, and his decisions against another run for the Senate or a new bid for president.

Listen to this story on NPR.

At 76, West Virginia senator Joe Manchin waves off the concerns of some of his colleagues about a candidate’s age and how it might affect their ability to carry out the responsibilities of office.

“I don’t look at age,” the democratic senator told NPR’s Michel Martin. “I look at [candidates] person by person. And with Joe Biden, every time I’ve been with him, we’ve talked, I’ve had no problem whatsoever”.

He is, however, reluctant to back the President in the 2024 election.

“I’m hoping that the Joe Biden that I know, the Joe Biden that I’ve known for a long time will come back,” Manchin told Morning Edition.

As a self described “conservative Democrat,” Manchin has frequently played spoiler to some of Biden’s key legislative initiatives – in 2021 he refused to support the Biden administration’s Build Back Better bill, even after the White House made multiple concessions in an effort to assuage his concerns. He similarly withheld his vote from Biden’s federal voting rights, climate-change agendas and tax reform policies by refusing to join with fellow Democrats in an evenly divided Senate.

“I can tell you it’s difficult being in the middle,” Manchin said. “…A 50/50 Senate, it’s not an enviable place to be at all.”

Last week, the senator announced that he won’t be running for the presidency in 2024 after flirting with a third party bid for months. During his announcement, he declined to endorse Biden or any other candidate, although he did offer praise to Trump’s lone GOP rival, the former U.S. Ambassador Nikki Haley.

“I think Nikki is spot on,” Manchin said, regarding Haley’s remarks critical of Trump in a speech on Tuesday.

Senator Manchin joined Michel Martin days after announcing his own decision not to seek the presidential nomination in 2024. He spoke of his legacy after 15 years in elective office, and his hesitancy to endorse another 2024 presidential hopeful – at least for now. Below are some of the highlights from that interview.

This interview has been edited and condensed for length and clarity.

On why he isn’t planning to run for president

It’s hard with the Democratic Party and Republican parties being the businesses that they are in Washington today, and I mean businesses, these are big billion dollar businesses that have picked their product.and pretty much have gone in the direction of choosing who they think that would be their strongest product, if you will. And that’s what they’re going to go with. And I, I just don’t fit in the Democrats process and they are doing things or the Republican process. I’ve always been independent minded.

And so I thought about that. And I’ve been with the No Labels Group since 2010, because I think they’re a wonderful group. They are trying to always give an opportunity for that middle minded person to have a venue. I’ve appreciated that they’ve been working and moving towards putting a unity ticket together. I think that it’s trying to give an option, which is good. I just believe right now this timing wasn’t right for me and I didn’t want to be a spoiler.

On why he won’t support President Biden

I think President Biden and his team have to look around them and ask, how did he win in 2020? Look at the rhetoric that was used back then. It’s not extreme. Everything that was said and everything he showed people was what he’d done through his experience being in the Senate and then being vice president. And [voters] said, “Yeah, this man is more moderate than most, he’s easy to work with. He looks at the facts and makes decisions.”That’s what he had been known for. And now I think people believe that he has gone too far to the left.

I think [we should be] putting ourselves back in a moderate, centrist position where people feel comfortable – they don’t think they’re being pushed and being overregulated. They don’t think that you have the finger or your thumb on the scale and are moving things too far to the left.

I think about how we deal with how we deal with crime in this country, how we deal with the border, how we deal with the fiscal responsibilities that we have. I think that no one’s taking the debt of this nation as seriously as they should. I think the greatest challenge that we have is getting our finances under control. And that means you just can’t spend like a drunken sailor.

[Biden’s team] keeps playing to the base versus where the voters are going to be. This next election will be decided by moderate, centrist, independent voters. They’re not talking to them.

On why he won’t support former President Donald Trump

I have said there’s no way I could support or vote for Donald Trump. I think it would be very detrimental to our country, and to our world standing. We have enough things in upheaval.

I just thought it was horrendous when a former president could not have condolences to a family that lost a 47 year old husband, a father and a son in a country that basically just eliminates their opposition. And when former President Trump couldn’t even say ‘my heart goes out to the Navalny family’ It’s wrong. There’s nothing right about this. But he keeps very silent and doesn’t say a word. It seems like he kind of admires the people that operate and govern that way, such as Putin. It scares the bejesus out of me.

I would consider anyone that truly puts their country before themselves and wants to bring people together. But you when you start denigrating and villainizing other people. And when hatred and revenge is going to be basically your mode of operation. That’s not right. There’s nothing normal about that.

On the legacy of his last term in Congress

It’s a shame to go out and the 118th Congress will go down as absolutely the least productive Congress in the history of the United States of America. That’s a sad scenario. Only 39 bills have been passed so far. We usually pass an average of about 523 bills every two years.

The 117th Congress was one of the most productive and one of the most monumental 118th will be the worst. And that’s a shame.

I have been very adamantly supportive of trying to give every American a chance to have a quality of life, no matter what the race to matter what their religion, no matter what their sexual preferences. But when you try to normalize, those are on the extremes which might be on a different path or taking in life, that makes it hard. When [the government] tries to push that into the mainstream, people reject it. And that’s not the government’s role. And I’ve said this all my life. I never have believed the government would be my provider. Government was my partner, whether it be local, municipalities, local, county, local and a state government. They were not my provider, nor did I expect them to be. But I hope [government] had the compassion and the moral values of helping those who couldn’t help themselves. That’s basically who I am and what I’ve always tried to do and what I always will do.

The audio version of this interview was produced by Kaity Kline and edited by Mohamad ElBardicy. The digital version was edited by Jacob Conard

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